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Greg Fish's avatar

I think there are two very different definitions of techno-optimism you and Marc are using. You're talking about the need to invest in new technologies and that when humanity has problems, the only way forward is new technology and innovation, and that all of our society should be focused on creation and exploration, not stagnation. Okay, I'm on board with that. Just tell me what to Venmo you for the ticket for that passage. You definitely have a much healthier, more inclusive vision.

However, that's not at all the techno-optimism of Silicon Valley which is being ridiculed by those of us in the technical field, or the tech press familiar with people like Andreessen and Musk. In their mind, a perfect world is ran by technology they own, and which is maintained by their indentured servants.

For example, on the one hand, Musk advocated settling Mars. It would be very difficult but an interesting, and long term, beneficial project. But he callously and casually says "yeah, a lot of people will die" and wants to offer loans for the flight to the red planet on his BFRs, loans which you'd pay off working for him. His version of techno-optimism is that technology will make life better. For him and his friends. If it just so happens to benefit the peasants too, cool beans. Meanwhile he's off ot promote neo-Nazi blue checks and tweet right wing outrage bait and conspiracy theories.

Likewise, Andreessen's worship of AI is rooted in Singularitarianism and Longtermism, he just hides it behind the "e/acc" banner in the same way Scientology hides Xenu behind offering to help with time management skills and annoying tics. He demands to have absolutely no controls, safeguards, or discussions against AI because he thinks that AI emulated how humans think (it does not), can be infinitely advanced (it cannot), and will at some magical point reach parity with humans in every single possible dimension (for stupid reasons involving a guy named Nick Bostrom), and he will then be able to upload his mind to a computer and live forever as digital oligarch (also for stupid reasons, these ones involving a guy named Ray Kurzweil).

If we say "wait, hold on, how can we train AI to benefit the world better," or "let's figure out IP laws around training vast AI models," he has a conniption because according to e/acc tenets, we are violating the march of progress because any interference with technology today might mean that a critical new technology or model isn't invented in the future, like the evil Butterfly Effect. That's the crux of e/acc in the end. The future matters. So much so that it's okay to sacrifice today and rely on humanity pulling itself from the brink an apocalyptic crisis even though it's stupid, expensive, and will cost many lives.

Finally, I feel like I have to point out that exponentially growing GDPs are great, but vast amounts of that wealth have ended up in very few hands. Unless people are going to be able to fully participate in the future and benefit from technology to make their lives legitimately easier, instead of working two jobs and a side hustle to maybe barely afford rent while buying is a deranged fantasy they don't even allow themselves to entertain anymore... Well, I've seen those movies. They don't end well.

But Marc is insisting that GDP growth can be infinite and so are the benefits, so we better get on his path of infinite trickle-down or he'll keep raging that the poors are spoiling his dream future of digital godhood because Singularitarians believe that technological advancement is the only thing that matters because it's exponential, and now also think that exponential development curve is tied to GDP. It's those broken, vicious, and inhuman ideas, along with his entitled self-righteous tone that are being picked apart and ridiculed. If he was genuinely interested in uplifting humanity instead of having a tantrum after a crypto blowout, we would take him more seriously.

Meanwhile, I read Andreessen's screed and am imagining us following down his path into the cramped, sweaty, natalist fleshpit of The World Within.

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Greg G's avatar

I'm totally on board with techno-optimism. Capitalism and technological progress have been the two biggest drivers of a better standard of life for humanity (although I have to note that capitalism is pretty bad at distributing the gains).

As a society, it seems like we're still pretty immature in our thinking about the risks and externalities of new technology. In my opinion, too many people are either going full booster like Andreessen and ignoring any downsides, or full naysayer and making claims like a modest amount of misinformation on social media being one of society's major ills. People seem to have the hardest time taking costs and benefits into account. We also seem to have lost sight of material progress in particular. The most important thing we can do for people is to make sure they have food, housing, healthcare, and so on. But we seem to keep taking our eye off the ball and worrying about things like relative status.

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