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Geoffrey G's avatar

"It's not that hard to move between Europe and the U.S., but not that many people do it."

This statement is very incorrect. And since this is a very load-bearing part of your argument, that's a problem downstream of the point. But yours is a misconception so widely held by Americans that it's important to clarify it here for the readership, generally:

It's *extremely* difficult for Europeans to move to the Untied States and vice-versa, as I can well-attest from the POV of an American living in Europe long-term. Most people in rich countries absolutely cannot "vote with their feet" in either direction. EU/EEA residents can't even easily move to the UK, and vice-versa, *within* Europe, anymore! And that changes the terms of these types of arguments, fundamentally.

For Europeans who aren't married to an American, the narrow pathway to moving to the US to work and live is via: 1/ the tiny-and-closing pathway of the H1-B visa 2/ an L-1A/B intracompany transfer or 3/ an O-1 for "extraordinary ability."

You've talked about the H1-B here before, so you know that it's capped at 85,000 professionals per year, which is a minuscule amount relative to *global* (overwhelmingly Asian) candidates and the unmet domestic American demand for that talent.

As for the L-1, it's also such a small volume as to be meaningless: you're talking a scale of a few tens of thousands. I know a few fellow tech workers who were transferred to the US on that basis (e.g. at Amazon or other American multi-nationals) to pursue global leadership roles, but the process within your corporation is extremely stringent, given the costs and complexities involved to sponsor. You're going to need to clock several years and reach upper-middle-management at your company for them to even consider it. Or else, yeah, be one of the tiny pool of charmed talent "working 80 hours a week building the future of AI."

And as for the O-1, it should be self-explanatory that this is an infinitesimally small pool. I suppose you could now double this exclusive pool with Trump's new "Golden Visa" for plutocrats. But it's not material to your argument.

Out of a US workforce of 160 million people and a EU/EEA/UK workforce of 250 million, then, we're looking at maybe ~50,000 Europeans who even *could* transfer to the US per year.

So when Trump asks why Norwegians and Danes aren't moving to the US instead of people from "shithole countries," the boring answer is because they literally can't. Many more Nordic people would if there was a pathway for them to do so.

Just like all of us know several dozen Americans who would *love* to move to Denmark or Norway if they were actually able to. Because do you have any idea how impossible that is for Americans!? One doesn't simply move to Europe. You've got a parallel situation to the one that greets Europeans trying to move to the US: a very limited and very stringent allotment of work visas, EU Blue Cards, or Critical Skills Visas available for the choicest American workers. I was able to get the latter, but a tiny percentage of American workers would qualify. The overwhelming majority of the millions of Americans residing Europe are either stationed there for the US military or other government reasons, retired on Golden Visas, or married to a European. There's no clean total of Americans just working in Europe on work visas, but the number granted per year is roughly equivalent at ~50,000, given the difficulty.

As in the US, your real scale path in to Europe is via family ties: Millions of Americans have a Polish or Italian or Greek grandparent that would be their "ticket" to EU citizenship, often without their knowledge. Others marry-in. But even finding a European to marry for your pathway is arguably even more onerous than it is on the American side, with years-long administrative delay, sizable costs, formidable red-tape (which is very different by country), and practical challenges that can be insurmountable (like families literally having to remain separated for 12-18 months and maintaining households on two continents). I am married to a European but that would have been the hardest way for me to secure residency, ironically.

So saying that people in rich countries reveal their preferences by moving (or not) is incorrect.

Jack Smith's avatar

Thanks for this Noah, a really good overview of what's going on here. For what it's worth, in this specific context, I agree more with Garicano's way of looking at real income than Krugman's, though I understand it is to a certain extent subjective and context-dependent. Over very long periods of time, and we're really talking decades here, you have to have something that accounts for how much our consumption has changed qualitatively. If, say, Americans buy more cars and phones relative to Europeans, who may spend more on eating out - a hypothetical, but plausible example - we have to take into account the fact that cars and phones are vastly better in 2026 than in 2000. Eating out isn't, however, unless we're talking about delivery services, which Americans definitely spend more on.

I think to properly look at this, both economically and sociologically/politically, it's important to separate two things: European economic performance, which is pretty heterogeneous, and cultural preferences for what to do with wealth, which aren't. For the first, zooming in on real output per hour worked is absolutely the correct thing to do. This is where the gap opens up in the aggregate, something Mario Draghi's report showed pretty conclusively. The underlying reason is also obvious: the gap started opening up in the late 1990s, when the US tech boom started. The same thing did not happen here in Europe to nearly the same extent.

That said, there are clear outperformers. The Netherlands, Sweden, and Switzerland have all done pretty well compared to the US and other European countries. Others, like Italy and the UK, are notable laggards. The two things that stand out about the outperformers are that (1) they have relatively deep capital markets by European standards and (2) they are small but open economies whose businesses orient themselves around selling goods and services into much bigger markets. They also tend to have more flexible labour market arrangements for formal and permanent employees than some big European countries, like France and Spain. That said, the UK also has deep capital markets and relatively flexible labour laws, and that clearly hasn't helped them very much.

Cultural preferences - how to spend it - are a totally different story. Visually, there is honestly not much to separate nice suburbs of London, Paris, Milan, Zurich, and Amsterdam, aside from the weather and some aesthetic architectural details. They all resemble each other a lot more than they do a nice American suburb. If you go to Switzerland, where labour productivity is pretty much dead-on American levels, they do not live in huge, air-conditioned houses, or drive cars that are the size of a light tank. The most noticeable differences between them and other European countries are how punctual the trains are, and how much Swiss people talk about going on holiday in the Maldives. In other words, they plough that extra wealth into very European things - better public transport, and nicer holidays.

The economic outliers also don't have vastly different social models to other European countries. Switzerland in particular does have lower government spending relative to its GDP. But that's not really true of the Netherlands or Sweden, and Switzerland still has a robust social insurance-based system. If you go to the doctor, become unemployed, or retire, it's still far more like it is elsewhere in Europe than in the US.

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