Well said. Another way we can fight Cold War 2 is by keeping the immigration gates open. The world’s best and brightest still want to come to the US, our violence problem not withstanding. Liberal societies can drain success from our illiberal opponents by offering an alternate home to their free thinkers.
I came here to note that Noah's list of "U.S. economic measures in Cold War 2" should include:
4. Grow the US economy.
I was thinking about the sort of social-democratic risk-reward trade-offs that Europe has made, but immigration would indeed be another policy category. Improving our criminal-justice catastrophe would be yet another category.
Kind of like Hungary creating a community and institute of Western intellectuals who have found their supposedly liberal universities unwilling to accommodate actual independent thinking.
Riley Gaines and a great many other people might disagree with that assessment.
The Chinese argue their society "advances science and betters lives" too, and they use it as an excuse to limit free expression. If the price of material prosperity is the loss of liberty, count me out.
Seriously, why do you think American conservative intellectuals are fleeing the United States to setup shop in a tiny Eastern European country? For anyone who believes in liberalism, that alone ought to raise red flags.
Not really. Some people join cults, go to Guyana, etc., for all sorts of crazy misguided reasons.
Who are these “conservative intellectuals” anyway? What I am confident in is that the US will not actually miss them and Hungary will not be improved by them.
Liberty including of course free speech and our other freedoms will actually lead to more material prosperity unless we forget that autocrats only care about their own personal prosperity.
American conservative intellectuals aren't fleeing to other countries. They are fleeing to the Democratic Party because the Republican Party is no longer conservative and is anti-intellectual. Point the finger at the Left all you want, for the flight of intellectuals. The fault lies entirely with the Right.
It seems to be running both ways, Ref. I see intellectual heavyweights rejecting the GOP's increasingly non-libertarian agenda and defecting to the Dems. Similarly, I see liberal intellectuals rejecting the Democrat's obsession with identity politics and wokeness and defecting to the GOP. To me, this looks like an elite form of what's going on at the grassroots: party realignment. The Democratic Party is becoming more white, educated, and wealthy. The GOP is becoming more blue-collar and diverse. Voters are resorting themselves politically (many polls now bear this out), our elites are following suit. The interesting thing is that they are following the herd, not leading it. George Will didn't leave the GOP and take a bunch of pro-business conservatives with him; George Will left the GOP because the GOP had already reset its positions.
These aren't ethno-nationalists carrying Confederate flags. We're talking significant conservative journalists and academics here -- people who believe in classic Enlightenment liberalism and limited government -- who are leaving the United States (in Dreher's case likely permanently) to do research and write in a tiny Eastern European country that the entire Western press uniformly paints as an authoritarian hell hole.
Either they've gone insane or we're not being told the whole story.
No, they seem more like religious reactionaries thus part of a long and destructive tradition in Europe. I guess Bannon is part of that crew or was but he returned the US. Most of them seem to be European. Maybe more of a Claremont Institute in Budapest.
But then you would have to be selective to admit races and religions that are constructive and not destructive - that would be considered racist nowadays. So you either have to shut down completely or open up completely.
I’m supportive of more legal immigration than current numbers, my specific idea does require wide open borders. For example, Nickolas Kristof has proposed giving everyone who earns a Ph.D at an American University a green card. Not everyone would take it, and the numbers would be thousands, not millions, but a great deal for the US.
Didn’t even start the rest of the post yet, but man, sorry to hear about Cinnamon. Losing a furry friend sucks, and it’s the worst part about having a pet.
Hi Mike! Good to see you here! Noah seems to be an empathetic economist and the Cold War he wants us all to fight is a battle against authoritarian regimes that have no empathy for anybody but their own personal gains.
Whew! This is a breath of fresh air, Noah. It very much needed to be said. Especially, "The critics of the U.S.’ more confrontational policy toward China tend to assume that the U.S. has most of the agency here — that we’re the ones who chose to start Cold War 2, and that if we back off or adopt a less confrontational policy toward China, there will be no Cold War 2, and we can basically go back to something approximating the status quo of 2015.
"This is very wrong...." Everything else flows from this. Whatever issues the U.S. has internally now or globally since WWII, we have no choice about confronting the CCP effort to reorganize the world around its value system.
What you are describing is not a new Cold War and should be narrated in warlike terms. It’s an economic and political struggle which is normal part of global affairs. If the United States wants to dominate we need to do better economically. The money we spend on our military is mostly a dead loss and should be redirected to more productive uses. We blew trillions of dollars during the GWOT which is why we are falling behind other countries in things like basic infrastructure.
It’s kind of amazing to go to Europe or Asia and see their highly functioning cities and dynamic societies and see how far behind we have fallen.
There is a huge political and economic infrastructure in the United States that always pushes for more taxpayer dollars for their pet projects, mostly defense boondoggles. Far too much of our political energies are wasted in NIMBYism and corruption. If we are serious about keeping up with China economically we will redirect public energies and taxpayers dollars to the public good. I wish I could be more optimistic about this.
In the slightly longer run, we are headed for a multi-polar world. Outside of Europe counties don’t want to “take sides” in a new Cold War, and they won’t. A rising India won’t. The Middle East is taking its own way and South America is not interested. The US certainly has more trust than China or Russia but is not regarded as a reliable ally and certainly no moral beacon. It’s strange how few Americans are cognizant of that.
Stephen Kotkin makes similar points. We've already been in some form of a Cold War but we haven't come to grips with it and we haven't acted strategically over a sustained period of time.
Could you argue Russia starting undermining the ‘no conquest order’ earlier than Ukraine in 2014 with its actions in Georgia in 2008? Very sorry about Cinnamon
Russians would argue that the 2008 Georgia conflict was kind of provoked by Georgia; not just by Georgia's aspirations to join NATO, but by actions that could be construed as unfreezing the Ossetia-Ingushetia conflict.
Of course, that begs the question of why was there a frozen conflict to begin with.
Condolences about Cinnamon. All your readers who have had or have beloved pets can relate to your grief.
Thank you for sharing that. It's a specific reminder that while I might disagree with some of your views, my support for you as a fellow human, suffering the slings and arrows of life, is far more important. And a general reminder to be kind in all online comments.
Sorry to hear about Cinnamon. 😥❤️
Thanks...
Cinnamon has such a beautiful, curious, and innocent face.
Clearly, a rabbit among rabbits.
I'm glad you took some time off to care for her and grieve her passing. And may her memory be a blessing.
💜
Well said. Another way we can fight Cold War 2 is by keeping the immigration gates open. The world’s best and brightest still want to come to the US, our violence problem not withstanding. Liberal societies can drain success from our illiberal opponents by offering an alternate home to their free thinkers.
I came here to note that Noah's list of "U.S. economic measures in Cold War 2" should include:
4. Grow the US economy.
I was thinking about the sort of social-democratic risk-reward trade-offs that Europe has made, but immigration would indeed be another policy category. Improving our criminal-justice catastrophe would be yet another category.
Kind of like Hungary creating a community and institute of Western intellectuals who have found their supposedly liberal universities unwilling to accommodate actual independent thinking.
Man, you are deep in your echo chamber.
Has that community of Western intellectuals actually created anything? Those “supposedly liberal universities” advance science and better lives.
Riley Gaines and a great many other people might disagree with that assessment.
The Chinese argue their society "advances science and betters lives" too, and they use it as an excuse to limit free expression. If the price of material prosperity is the loss of liberty, count me out.
Seriously, why do you think American conservative intellectuals are fleeing the United States to setup shop in a tiny Eastern European country? For anyone who believes in liberalism, that alone ought to raise red flags.
Not really. Some people join cults, go to Guyana, etc., for all sorts of crazy misguided reasons.
Who are these “conservative intellectuals” anyway? What I am confident in is that the US will not actually miss them and Hungary will not be improved by them.
Liberty including of course free speech and our other freedoms will actually lead to more material prosperity unless we forget that autocrats only care about their own personal prosperity.
American conservative intellectuals aren't fleeing to other countries. They are fleeing to the Democratic Party because the Republican Party is no longer conservative and is anti-intellectual. Point the finger at the Left all you want, for the flight of intellectuals. The fault lies entirely with the Right.
It seems to be running both ways, Ref. I see intellectual heavyweights rejecting the GOP's increasingly non-libertarian agenda and defecting to the Dems. Similarly, I see liberal intellectuals rejecting the Democrat's obsession with identity politics and wokeness and defecting to the GOP. To me, this looks like an elite form of what's going on at the grassroots: party realignment. The Democratic Party is becoming more white, educated, and wealthy. The GOP is becoming more blue-collar and diverse. Voters are resorting themselves politically (many polls now bear this out), our elites are following suit. The interesting thing is that they are following the herd, not leading it. George Will didn't leave the GOP and take a bunch of pro-business conservatives with him; George Will left the GOP because the GOP had already reset its positions.
Be specific, who is fleeing and where are they fleeing to?
Look up the Danube Institute: https://danubeinstitute.hu/en/content/visiting-fellows That's some of them, but it's larger than that. CPAC was held in Budapest last year.
These aren't ethno-nationalists carrying Confederate flags. We're talking significant conservative journalists and academics here -- people who believe in classic Enlightenment liberalism and limited government -- who are leaving the United States (in Dreher's case likely permanently) to do research and write in a tiny Eastern European country that the entire Western press uniformly paints as an authoritarian hell hole.
Either they've gone insane or we're not being told the whole story.
No, they seem more like religious reactionaries thus part of a long and destructive tradition in Europe. I guess Bannon is part of that crew or was but he returned the US. Most of them seem to be European. Maybe more of a Claremont Institute in Budapest.
LOL, as if CPAC was ever affiliated with any intellectualism.
But then you would have to be selective to admit races and religions that are constructive and not destructive - that would be considered racist nowadays. So you either have to shut down completely or open up completely.
I’m supportive of more legal immigration than current numbers, my specific idea does require wide open borders. For example, Nickolas Kristof has proposed giving everyone who earns a Ph.D at an American University a green card. Not everyone would take it, and the numbers would be thousands, not millions, but a great deal for the US.
Didn’t even start the rest of the post yet, but man, sorry to hear about Cinnamon. Losing a furry friend sucks, and it’s the worst part about having a pet.
Hi Mike! Good to see you here! Noah seems to be an empathetic economist and the Cold War he wants us all to fight is a battle against authoritarian regimes that have no empathy for anybody but their own personal gains.
Whew! This is a breath of fresh air, Noah. It very much needed to be said. Especially, "The critics of the U.S.’ more confrontational policy toward China tend to assume that the U.S. has most of the agency here — that we’re the ones who chose to start Cold War 2, and that if we back off or adopt a less confrontational policy toward China, there will be no Cold War 2, and we can basically go back to something approximating the status quo of 2015.
"This is very wrong...." Everything else flows from this. Whatever issues the U.S. has internally now or globally since WWII, we have no choice about confronting the CCP effort to reorganize the world around its value system.
What you are describing is not a new Cold War and should be narrated in warlike terms. It’s an economic and political struggle which is normal part of global affairs. If the United States wants to dominate we need to do better economically. The money we spend on our military is mostly a dead loss and should be redirected to more productive uses. We blew trillions of dollars during the GWOT which is why we are falling behind other countries in things like basic infrastructure.
It’s kind of amazing to go to Europe or Asia and see their highly functioning cities and dynamic societies and see how far behind we have fallen.
There is a huge political and economic infrastructure in the United States that always pushes for more taxpayer dollars for their pet projects, mostly defense boondoggles. Far too much of our political energies are wasted in NIMBYism and corruption. If we are serious about keeping up with China economically we will redirect public energies and taxpayers dollars to the public good. I wish I could be more optimistic about this.
In the slightly longer run, we are headed for a multi-polar world. Outside of Europe counties don’t want to “take sides” in a new Cold War, and they won’t. A rising India won’t. The Middle East is taking its own way and South America is not interested. The US certainly has more trust than China or Russia but is not regarded as a reliable ally and certainly no moral beacon. It’s strange how few Americans are cognizant of that.
Stephen Kotkin makes similar points. We've already been in some form of a Cold War but we haven't come to grips with it and we haven't acted strategically over a sustained period of time.
Oh, Noah, I'm so damned sorry for what you've been going through with Cinnamon. That's genuinely awful.
Thanks...
Could you argue Russia starting undermining the ‘no conquest order’ earlier than Ukraine in 2014 with its actions in Georgia in 2008? Very sorry about Cinnamon
Russians would argue that the 2008 Georgia conflict was kind of provoked by Georgia; not just by Georgia's aspirations to join NATO, but by actions that could be construed as unfreezing the Ossetia-Ingushetia conflict.
Of course, that begs the question of why was there a frozen conflict to begin with.
It's good that allies seem to be finally strengthening relations e.g. Japan and South Korea.
As a former family member of these sweet and smart pets, I'm sorry to hear about Cinnamon. I look forward to reading more about your friend.
Very thoughtful piece, thank you. And condolences for your loss.
Thanks!!
Condolences about Cinnamon. All your readers who have had or have beloved pets can relate to your grief.
Thank you for sharing that. It's a specific reminder that while I might disagree with some of your views, my support for you as a fellow human, suffering the slings and arrows of life, is far more important. And a general reminder to be kind in all online comments.
Our furry family members bring so much to our lives and can never stay long enough. May Cinnamon's memory be a blessing.
Sorry for your loss of Cinnamon. I understand.
I think you laid out a very reasonable and cogent argument for the US engagement in Cold War 2. It will take deft hands and cool leaders at times.
My condolences on Cinnamon's passing.
Thanks.
"Tis a fearful thing to love what death can touch"