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Peter Shin's avatar

I was aghast after reading that stupid defense from "History & Innovation." It is truly shocking that people with academic credentials should come with such risible justifications (ie. Fabricating evidence is good as long as it confronts EuroAmerica-centrism, WTF?!). Diversity of opinion and debate should be encouraged, but blatant falsifications and lies should be suppressed. So many in the Left are tempted by overly simplified notions of decolonization, anti-imperialism that they become themselves prisoners of a violent and irrational ideology. What is EuroAmericanism anyway?

At this point, I think it is crucial to defend the values and civilization of the Enlightenment. It is being attacked by both the Left and the Right. The Left wants to deconstruct the results of Enlightenment by tearing apart the very fabric of society which enables us to live in an orderly fashion. On the other hand, the Right wants to demolish the Enlightenment by bringing back traditional values (real or imagined) as an answer to modern problems.

For me, the West is the product of the Enlightenment and the result of self-reflection after two horrendous global wars. The West is not Europe, nor is it Christendom. It is a civilization forged by abstract ideals (freedom, rule of law, human rights) & real experiences (World Wars, the Holocaust). I am not European nor American, I am not even white, but I think the civilization represented by the West is worth defending and promoting. To that end, I think it is hugely important to confront this kind of pseudo-scientific nonsense as described by Noah.

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Gstew2's avatar

Love this article but I think it’s a bit more insidious than people making stuff up. Science works off falsification and falsifiable ideas, however, there are always assumptions and methodological choices that influence how we arrive at those findings.

There is also the very pernicious file drawer effect (scrapping none significant findings) and as I have discovered first hand, some very dicey decisions made around which of the grey literature to include on meta-analyses.

Long story short, science conducted by a politically or ideologically homogenous group is like conducting a survey on who you intend to vote for with a biased sample or conducting a prosecution without a defense attorney (the later is called a grand jury and getting indictments from a grand jury is laughably easy).

A diverse scientific community will use a variety of methods, study topics differently and make different assumptions and incrementally move the different fields forward. The homogeneous blob we have in most of our sciences currently will struggle, not due to ethical reasons or by trying to hide things but simply due to a lack of diversity

of thought.

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Kevin Barry's avatar

Before the Hamas stuff I thought the far left were idiots but cute and harmless. I feel a lot different now - this has me viewing their past illiberalism in a different light.

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yokem55's avatar

I'm hesitant to even call the flow chart "pseudoscience". The hand-waivy vagueness doesn't really try to make any kind of clear or predictable claims about anything.

What it is, is a meme. Not a good one to be sure, but it aims to simplify a big narrative into something pat and concise. Trying to analyzye it segment by segment misses the whole point the author is trying to make. It falls into the category of ideas that should be taken seriously, but not literally. Do social ills cause real health effects on people? Sure. Should we try to fix those social ills? Absolutely. Is this meme a good way to communicate that? For most audiences - no.

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Kevin Z's avatar

The Dr. Marya flow chart isn't pseudoscience, It's quackery. (and seems quite narcissistic too?)

I very much appreciate your attempt to call out this blatant ideological infestation of science.

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Buzen's avatar

Can medical licenses be revoked?

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D.R.'s avatar

They can, but there usually has to be proof of real patients being harmed. Then the evidence is presented at a tribunal of the medical licensing body, just like a court. Not straightforward.

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Thomas L. Hutcheson's avatar

No, but social media participation licenses should be. :)

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Tom Barson's avatar

To Noahpinion's question:

"What happens if an academic field becomes entirely populated by researchers who think that one particular brand of politics justifies embracing any methodology, however pseudoscientific?"

Well, that field dies - just as we are seeing. All of the Pomo or social constructionist fields are withering. Fewer and fewer students want to major in fields that the adult world doesn't take seriously. Whether most universities will even have offered majors in English, History, Sociology, etc. ten years from now is a real question. PhD graduates in these fields today already have a very slim chance of absorption into normal tenure-track academic careers. It's sad, catastrophic even, but I think it's mainly due to the decline in respect for facts and canons of inference that Noah describes.

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Nov 21, 2023
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Tom Barson's avatar

"Pomo" = post-modernism. I have no idea where I picked up that usage.

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Miles's avatar

oh I totally thought you had typed "porno" and the R and N were just close together.

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David Burse's avatar

The "porno constructionist" field.

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Curt Adams's avatar

The "porno constructionist" field is flourishing, judging by the contents of my spam folder.

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David Burse's avatar

Well, it's certainly not "withering" ....

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James Collins's avatar

Why sigh? It’s called “mathematics” so “maths” makes sense.

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Noah Smith's avatar

hehehe

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Auros's avatar

See my comment. It's not a plural.

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Mork's avatar

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

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Bobson's avatar

Brits also call sports the singular sport. I think British and American English traded plurals way back in the day. :)

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Thomas L. Hutcheson's avatar

Not really. The "s" in "mathematics is not a plural marker. In "maths" it appears to be. [Or is this just question begging becasue to a Brit the "s" of "maths" is not a plural marker?]

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Donald Duncan's avatar

Well, clearly the British should recognize that the correct spelling is "math's".

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Steve Roth's avatar

Hey about a post on de-politicizing econ? I would argue that the policy sea-changes under Biden (labor, antitrust, etc.) are to a great extent the result of exactly that.

eg Listening to Arin Dube's & co's incredible DiD research and finally replacing the conservative- and "capital"-slanted (and childishly simplistic) theories of minimum wage that prevailed for so many decades.

I know I don't have to give you any more examples; they're thick on the ground. Thanks for listening.

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Auros's avatar

To be fair to the Brits, the word they're shortening is "mathematics", which has the S on the end. You wouldn't shorten "bicycles" as "bike". It's "bikes".

However, while I understand their mistake, the Brits have it definitively wrong. "Mathematics" _isn't_ actually plural. It's an import of a Greek term for something singular. It just happens to end in S. Greek μάθημα (máthēma) is "study, knowledge, learning". μαθηματικός (mathēmatikós) is something like, "the subject of understanding what can be learned". So it's a pretty good name for math very broadly as the subject that encompasses all abstract logical systems.

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Kenny Easwaran's avatar

Aren't "mathematics" and "maths" actually grammatically singular in British, just like "physics" and "politics" and "civics" and any other similar "-ics" subjects?

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Auros's avatar

Yes, but that’s exactly the problem. If you shorten “politics”, you don’t preserve the S. People take Poli Sci classe, not Polis Sci.

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Kenny Easwaran's avatar

And I suppose it’s not Econs either. But the point is that it’s grammatically singular even with the S.

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Auros's avatar

Right, which is what I said in my original comment. The British shortening preserves the S _as though_ it were plural, but it's not. And you can tell that it's not, even from how Brits use it in sentences. It's quite odd.

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Tran Hung Dao's avatar

> However, while I understand their mistake, the Brits have it definitively wrong

This take is wrong. It isn't "maths" because they misunderstood how Greeks works. It is "maths" because it is a count noun with multiple branches: geometry, algebra, calculus, etc. Just like we say "sciences" or "gymnastics".

In any case, I'm not sure the people who literally create the language can be definitively wrong about how the language works. Just because loan-words take their cue from another language, doesn't mean they are beholden to that language.

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Auros's avatar

Your analogy here doesn’t work because as Kenny observes, it gets used as if it were singular. We say things like “the sciences are important”, but here you can see a bunch of Brits using the shortened “maths” as a singular: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/s/BYMme0Y2Hz

If you think “mathematics” is singular, then keeping the S when it’s abbreviated is _weird_.

Of course Americans sometimes have similar weird ambiguity around whether “sports” is a singular or plural term. The Brits do that one correctly, calling it “sport” when they want to talk about all sporting activities as a whole.

(Also of course I am being somewhat tongue-in-cheek here. Languages just do weird shit sometimes. I have a degree in linguistics.)

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Bobson's avatar

There's something similar with the word kudos, a Greek loan word for acknowledgement or praise. In the original Greek, kudos is singular. English speakers see the "s" at the end and think it's plural, so we got the back-formed "kudo" as a singular unit of praise.

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Robert F's avatar

If you look up the etymology it appears the plural/singular point is anything but definitive:

https://mathbenny.wordpress.com/2013/02/28/etymology-definition-of-mathematics/

There was a middle english word 'mathematic', which comes from 'from Old French mathematique and directly from Latin mathematica (plural), https://www.etymonline.com/word/mathematics

https://www.etymonline.com/word/-ics

says: "The grammatical number of words in -ics (mathematics is/mathematics are) is a confused question."

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Robert F's avatar

Just noticed your reply to someone else below. Definitely agree its use as a singular in everyday English today is pretty dominant.

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Natalie's avatar

Looking forward to a spicy rant about post-modernism on the next podcast.

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Jean's avatar

Just wait til you take a peak at the politicized science and medicine of gender medicine, or the institutional capture of once-reputable outlets like Scientific American and Nature.

The notable dearth of studies focused on anything but positive outcomes of medical intervention for trans identified people is remarkable. To study potential negative outcomes is to violate the politics of the movement.

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David Burse's avatar

Now do climate change

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Jason's avatar

“And if humans collectively decide to embrace pseudoscience in the natural sciences, it can lead to widespread suffering.”

Like how Freud won out over Paul Charles Dubois and threw psychotherapy off course for more than 50 years.

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Max Davies's avatar

There’s a technical term to describe Dr Maryla’s flowchart: “twaddle”. In this case, the qualifiers “utter” and “infantile” should be applied.

Once analyzed as utter infantile twaddle, no further commentary on the flowchart is needed.

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Kathleen Weber's avatar

You know what could also cause a heck of a lot of inflammation? A really bad relationship with your ex-pouse or having three teenagers in the house.

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Lee's avatar

I just enjoy the fact that she’s saying that nurofen is used to cure colonialism

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Kathleen Weber's avatar

To be utterly precise she is saying that Nurofen can treat a downstream effect of colonialism.

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Lee's avatar

Yeah but my way is funnier 😊

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Kathleen Weber's avatar

You are absolutely right about that.

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The Digital Entomologist's avatar

I just read several paragraphs about why a manifestly bs graph is bs. What I want to read is why things that look like bs are actually legit or why things that look legit are actually bs.

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Zack's avatar

It’s just remarkable the extent to which academia seems to incubate such lunacy. My data-free assumption is that it has something to do with the fact that a bunch of these fields produce nothing of value and therefore don’t command a wage premium in the market or (in turn) in the academy. Therefore only dummies or ideologues join them.

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Kathleen Weber's avatar

Noah, there is a problem with politicized history. If you believe things about the past with no solid evidence, you won't learn to distinguish what is truth and fiction in the present.

We need to learn to seek for evidence to back up our assessments of reality in every field.

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James Borden's avatar

Absolutely--by reading reputable historians you can learn when activists have simply made stuff up.

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Kathleen Weber's avatar

But don't try to tell them that. They are desperately trying to become the winners who write the history.

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James Borden's avatar

Or they are so frustrated by historians having actual professional standards that they are trying to privilege memory instead.

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