EV only household with 13 kW of solar and 60kWh of whole home backup! We're good and haven't thought about driving range or gas or energy prices in years.
Panels, racking, wiring, DC String Inverter - $15,000. Batteries $8,000. Based King Joseph Robinette Biden and the Democratic Party got me a 30% discount on that via the IRA, so net price was ~$16,000. Payback period of 4-6 years given our electric usage and cost. I also got the benefit of experiencing the world's lowest observed post-pandemic inflation rate thanks to Joe Biden. Even then the price and payback period makes sense.
Tesla Model Y also had a tax credit, and we picked up a Chevy Bolt EUV for the second EV. Both have been absolutely flawless. We regularly drive across the country in the Tesla and doing so is a completely thoughtless process. EVs just work no matter where you live. I would recommend Mr. Technology Connection's recent video, to all the many doubters in the comments, because you're all just plain wrong even after reading Noah's data. "You are being misled about renewable energy technology" https://youtu.be/KtQ9nt2ZeGM?si=tlMJZ2GC9cnawQiY
That's a lot of capacity and power, which is great, and thus it cost a lot of money to build. The problem for many people is that they can't get their investment back or lack the capital. We finally got a used EV because the rebates were expiring but still in force. It bothers me on a daily basis that I don't have solar and a battery bank in my urban home. It's just stupid, but most neighbors don't, either.
This. We put up a system a bit more modest than your own in HI, and estimate a six year ROI. We pay $30/month to maintain a hookup for emergencies...but otherwise pay zero in gas and electricity.
Macroeconomically, Electro beats Petro by almost every metric. But Republican politicians are paid big bucks by their Petro constituents, and are leading us hard into a past that is not only financially hurting themselves and their families, but the rest of the country.
There's something uniquely American about having the solution sitting right there and actively choosing not to use it.
The price volatility chart says it all. One line bounces around like a heart monitor, the other one barely moves. And we picked the heart monitor. I say this as someone who drives a gas car because the only real EV option for a while was Tesla, and I don't want a Tesla.
What does it actually take to get people to switch when the alternatives still feel limited?
If Jesus returned tomorrow on clouds of glory, and called to the multitudes to buy EV's or hybrid plugins, the needle would definitely move.
When Elon donated $300 million and put Trump and the GOP over the top in '24, it seems he was hoping for just such an opening. To sell Tesla's to the untapped MAGA market. But irrational hostility to Green tech is such a deep part of the conservative mindset, it'd take a war that closes the Straits of Hormuz for an extended period to make a mark. Oh, wait...
Let the market decide. No need for handouts to buy or make an EV,
They make sense in urban areas. Singapore in 100 pct urban, Norway 84 pct. There are only about 14 US states that are as urbanized as Norway.
Of course, nobody in urban areas should own an EV in 20 years. Ride shares, jitneys and self driving taxis will be the norm. Don’t need to waste money owning an overpriced toy whether ICE or EV to signal status, let alone worry about parking, charging or fueling it. Convenience will be at hand.
If people still gravitate to cars as a luxury possession for show, they could be RVs or sports cars or ICE vehicles for long trips, while using self driving vehicles to get around town.
The market has already decided. Electro is kicking Petro's hairy ass. Which is why the GOP is using the power of the federal government to block renewable energy projects, block permits, increased Petro subsidies--to slow or even stop growth of electrification. It's like a form of Stalinism, skewing the free markets to subsidize their beloved Petro.
Noah: maybe you're right about EV's - but let the market handle it; I cannot stand the Govt telling me what to drive, eat, live etc. If EV's are so fantastic and they are cheaper to operate, then people will buy them and we do not need the govt involved. It is climate activists/extremists that have made EV's unpopular.
Trump2 has already been pushing anti-EV propaganda; as well illegally clawing back IRA disbursements for Green energy projects. The BBB has increased *subsidies* for Petro. Because Petro loses bad to Electro in the free market.
Anti-EV is now a MAGA honor badge, and will part of the Culture Wars until or unless the price of oil surges above $200/barrel, due to something like a war that closes of the Straits of Hormuz. Oh, wait...
As a former EV owner here in. California, it’s not quite so simple Noah. Full solar and battery here at home, but this state can barely sustain its current electricity demand. And millions of people don’t have access to at-home chargers in their garages and/or driveways (if they have one). Are you honestly suggesting we could just flip overnight to all-EV? I don’t think so. Bur should we be striving to be less reliant on fossil fuels? Yes, and had we focused on hybrids rather than just BEVs, we d be so much better off for it.
But it’s not really a national security issue. This country is the new Saudi Arabia. Our oil reserves are staggering, and we produce more oil than anyone. So the national security trope is a little thin. But just like the manner in which we’ve shot ourselves in the foot over EVs, we’ve also had stupid oil production policies. Time to be smart about both.
What’s a $7500 handout divided by say 100,000 miles, on a per mile basis?
And that doesn’t include the electricity subsidy some states offer EV owners or the handouts given to the Chinese battery companies.
As a tax payer, I feel better off that the subsidies have been scaled back. Paying rich people to buy cars is insane. If the car is good and the tech is good people will buy it. Used Teslas are very cheap in Elon-hating blue states and most used EVs are pretty cheap everywhere. People should go buy them
The battery companies are chinese because the usa allowed A123 to fail, the original developer of LFP battery chemistry that China is winning with. If the US had chosen to subsidize early demand then, pushing the industry along the industrial learning curve, america would be in a far better industrial position now.
Time for some scary looking dude doing a channel on long deer huntin' trips, deep into the sticks, in an EV pick-up with a very long range. Then replenishing back at the ranch while the meat's in the cooler. This may not be far off or already possible.
Those were likely the sorts of sugar-plums dancing around in Elon's head when he was ponying up $300 million to put the GOP in power in '24. But crush a man's dreams at your peril. When all US taxis are Robo Teslas in a few years, Elon will have his revenge!
I have an EV and I love it, but no way could it be my only car, road tripping is still miserable if you live in a flyover state, you're only going to be able to find one or two 250kw+ charging stations every few hundred miles for DCFC. And they'll be in high contention at certain times because charging still takes too long on the mostly 400v US ev fleet. And of course there's always one or two stalls broken down. Unless we get some industrial policy on the go here with the charging infra and start whipping manufacturers towards 800v, middle America is going to be stuck on gas or hybrids for the forseeable future. We're in a bad equilibrium where no company wants to build charging infra because there's not a large enough ev fleet, but consumers aren't swapping because there's not enough charging infra in America B.
We were in Singapore for a week last year. The Chinese EVs were more comfortable than expected, but felt exceptionally light. The car doors felt akin to cabinet doors in a first apartment, so light, they seemed hollow.
While that didn't cause concern on a tiny island, where traffic never moved above 30 mph, the notion the same cars would ever pass US auto safety standards or people would be safe on a 6 lane US freeway with traffic moving at 75 mph, seems very unlikely.
If people want to purchase EVs, they should, but without subsidy. Handing $7500 checks to families earning 3X US median family income, when they purchase an $80K luxury EV, was simply welfare for the wealthy.
Love the blog and keep up the good work but Ford did not "...utterly bungled its own EV rollout"! I've been driving a Ford Lightning for 2.5 years, absolutely love the ride, and keep quiet as others complain about gas prices. I'm a climate skeptic (at least the apocalypse versions) but still remember the first time accelerating in a friend's Tesla. Like you say, the EV tech is just...better. Ford has done a great job keeping my truck relevant and if they done anything wrong, it's not holding the course on what I simply call a better truck.
I friggin' love my EV. The Taycan Turbo S is the most fun sports car I've ever driven. I'm not even a climate-concerned kinda guy; I just feel like it's just a legitimately faster, quieter, more enjoyable sports car than any consumer gas vehicle on the market.
As for the fuel costs... Got one in 2021 and it came with free charging for three years, which was the entire term of the lease! Rolled into a 2025 about a year ago. It only came with one year free charging, but you can charge at the dealer any time for free. I'd be shocked if my total fuel costs over the last *five years* has amounted to more than $150 total (I don't charge at home like most people do).
Caught some flack from conservative friends for driving an EV. Not sure why they politicize EVs. I'm guessing because they associate it with climate activism. My experience though, is that once someone drives an EV, they don't go back -- regardless if they're conservative or liberal.
What I can't explain for the life of me is why people are so stuck on these gas cars. And the car manufacturers pander to these guys. You know what Porsche does that's just so insane? The Taycan has a button you can push that makes a fake noise from a rear speaker, to make the EV sound like a gas vehicle. Sounds more like a vacuum cleaner noise than a car noise to me but whatever. That's not all though. The 2026 model is going to have a fake gear shifter (and presumably clutch pedal?) to make it seem even *more* like a primitive gas guzzler. Not even making this up. I just don't understand people.
Don't mock range anxiety... That's actually a legit concern. At least for Porsche owners. At full charge, it says 330 miles remaining. I'm lucky to get 250. It's less of a concern for Tesla and Lucid owners though. I believe Lucid can get 500 miles on one charge which is more than most gas vehicles! Those dudes don't even know the meaning of the phrase "range anxiety."
"That story ended with Detroit rebounding in the late 90s and 2000s after oil prices went back down, by shifting to high-margin gas-guzzling SUVs. "
No. The oil glut ended in 1998. Prices in the late 90s and early 2000s were up from the glut period.
What rebound? The 'Big' "3" continued to lose market share. Chrysler effectively went bankrupt in the early '80s. Ford mortgaged everything in 2007. GM went bankrupt in 2008/9. The only thing that allowed them to restructure periodically was the 25% tariff on light trucks (read: SUVs) dating back to the late '60s.
Electricity prices have risen faster than oil prices since 1990. The EV transition is likely driving up electricity prices and helping keep oil prices very close to the marginal production cost of more efficient producers. Despite spikes in gasoline prices , the 'fuel' cost of driving EVs and ICE keeps converging.
Meanwhile, ICE cars became much more fuel efficient. My large sedan today consumes less than 4L/100km, while my ride in 1979, a 1968 Caprice sedan, consumed 23L/100km. That's a 83% decline in consumption.
Solar does NOT make sense where I live - at the edge of the Cascade mountains in Washington. And I am not sold yet as to the availability of recharging stations as I head into the mountains and forests - but I am doing fine with my 2017 Prius Prime. I can almost get to town for groceries and back on one charge and the mileage on gas is superb. It doesn't do so well on the forest and lumber roads though. Frankly, the smaller SUV hybrids are reasonable choices - and something like a Forester hybrid would handle the bad roads and winter road conditions better, but at about twice the fuel cost of the Prius - but still reasonable since I no longer have to commute to work daily. I was commuting when I got the Prius.
My neighbor with his multiple big diesel trucks / SUV's is not at all happy.
EV only household with 13 kW of solar and 60kWh of whole home backup! We're good and haven't thought about driving range or gas or energy prices in years.
Panels, racking, wiring, DC String Inverter - $15,000. Batteries $8,000. Based King Joseph Robinette Biden and the Democratic Party got me a 30% discount on that via the IRA, so net price was ~$16,000. Payback period of 4-6 years given our electric usage and cost. I also got the benefit of experiencing the world's lowest observed post-pandemic inflation rate thanks to Joe Biden. Even then the price and payback period makes sense.
Tesla Model Y also had a tax credit, and we picked up a Chevy Bolt EUV for the second EV. Both have been absolutely flawless. We regularly drive across the country in the Tesla and doing so is a completely thoughtless process. EVs just work no matter where you live. I would recommend Mr. Technology Connection's recent video, to all the many doubters in the comments, because you're all just plain wrong even after reading Noah's data. "You are being misled about renewable energy technology" https://youtu.be/KtQ9nt2ZeGM?si=tlMJZ2GC9cnawQiY
That's a lot of capacity and power, which is great, and thus it cost a lot of money to build. The problem for many people is that they can't get their investment back or lack the capital. We finally got a used EV because the rebates were expiring but still in force. It bothers me on a daily basis that I don't have solar and a battery bank in my urban home. It's just stupid, but most neighbors don't, either.
4 year payback period. It's fast if you own EVs.
This. We put up a system a bit more modest than your own in HI, and estimate a six year ROI. We pay $30/month to maintain a hookup for emergencies...but otherwise pay zero in gas and electricity.
Macroeconomically, Electro beats Petro by almost every metric. But Republican politicians are paid big bucks by their Petro constituents, and are leading us hard into a past that is not only financially hurting themselves and their families, but the rest of the country.
That’s not passing the smell test, sorry! Not even close.
We should be like Mao and each have a steel mill in our back garden. Economies of scale are so yesterday!
Buying a used EV is smart - resale is in the toilet so they are quite cheap. I have two friends who recently did this (Tesla 3 and a Bolt)
That is likely far more backup capacity than is economically justifiable. But if you like the peace of mind, all the power to you.
There's something uniquely American about having the solution sitting right there and actively choosing not to use it.
The price volatility chart says it all. One line bounces around like a heart monitor, the other one barely moves. And we picked the heart monitor. I say this as someone who drives a gas car because the only real EV option for a while was Tesla, and I don't want a Tesla.
What does it actually take to get people to switch when the alternatives still feel limited?
If Jesus returned tomorrow on clouds of glory, and called to the multitudes to buy EV's or hybrid plugins, the needle would definitely move.
When Elon donated $300 million and put Trump and the GOP over the top in '24, it seems he was hoping for just such an opening. To sell Tesla's to the untapped MAGA market. But irrational hostility to Green tech is such a deep part of the conservative mindset, it'd take a war that closes the Straits of Hormuz for an extended period to make a mark. Oh, wait...
Ah, I am someone who’d love to have an EV and overnight charging but I have neither a nice apartment complex with chargers nor do I have a driveway.
I’d basically have to drive to a nearby shopping complex and hang around in the parking lot to charge.
American infrastructure still has a long way to go.
Probably not allowed at an apartment but around here lots of people string extension cords arcross the sidewalk.
I've been doing that for 5 years. It's no problem.
This post was smug, angry, and ill-informed.
Most Americas cannot afford to buy new cars. Used car sales are 3x new car sales. And EV's are a tiny part of Used car sales. About 1%.
The wealthiest Americans will buy whatever car they prefer with little price sensitivity, whether that's an EV or a gas powered Escalade.
You are preaching in an echo chamber to a narrow audience.
Being an EV owner is a personal consumer market decision, not a badge of honor.
Let the market decide. No need for handouts to buy or make an EV,
They make sense in urban areas. Singapore in 100 pct urban, Norway 84 pct. There are only about 14 US states that are as urbanized as Norway.
Of course, nobody in urban areas should own an EV in 20 years. Ride shares, jitneys and self driving taxis will be the norm. Don’t need to waste money owning an overpriced toy whether ICE or EV to signal status, let alone worry about parking, charging or fueling it. Convenience will be at hand.
If people still gravitate to cars as a luxury possession for show, they could be RVs or sports cars or ICE vehicles for long trips, while using self driving vehicles to get around town.
The market has already decided. Electro is kicking Petro's hairy ass. Which is why the GOP is using the power of the federal government to block renewable energy projects, block permits, increased Petro subsidies--to slow or even stop growth of electrification. It's like a form of Stalinism, skewing the free markets to subsidize their beloved Petro.
"There are only about 14 US states that are as urbanized as Norway"
Even if that were a limitation, those 14 states are likely half the US population.
Noah: maybe you're right about EV's - but let the market handle it; I cannot stand the Govt telling me what to drive, eat, live etc. If EV's are so fantastic and they are cheaper to operate, then people will buy them and we do not need the govt involved. It is climate activists/extremists that have made EV's unpopular.
Trump2 has already been pushing anti-EV propaganda; as well illegally clawing back IRA disbursements for Green energy projects. The BBB has increased *subsidies* for Petro. Because Petro loses bad to Electro in the free market.
Anti-EV is now a MAGA honor badge, and will part of the Culture Wars until or unless the price of oil surges above $200/barrel, due to something like a war that closes of the Straits of Hormuz. Oh, wait...
As a former EV owner here in. California, it’s not quite so simple Noah. Full solar and battery here at home, but this state can barely sustain its current electricity demand. And millions of people don’t have access to at-home chargers in their garages and/or driveways (if they have one). Are you honestly suggesting we could just flip overnight to all-EV? I don’t think so. Bur should we be striving to be less reliant on fossil fuels? Yes, and had we focused on hybrids rather than just BEVs, we d be so much better off for it.
But it’s not really a national security issue. This country is the new Saudi Arabia. Our oil reserves are staggering, and we produce more oil than anyone. So the national security trope is a little thin. But just like the manner in which we’ve shot ourselves in the foot over EVs, we’ve also had stupid oil production policies. Time to be smart about both.
Another case of the culture war leaving us worse off.
What’s a $7500 handout divided by say 100,000 miles, on a per mile basis?
And that doesn’t include the electricity subsidy some states offer EV owners or the handouts given to the Chinese battery companies.
As a tax payer, I feel better off that the subsidies have been scaled back. Paying rich people to buy cars is insane. If the car is good and the tech is good people will buy it. Used Teslas are very cheap in Elon-hating blue states and most used EVs are pretty cheap everywhere. People should go buy them
The battery companies are chinese because the usa allowed A123 to fail, the original developer of LFP battery chemistry that China is winning with. If the US had chosen to subsidize early demand then, pushing the industry along the industrial learning curve, america would be in a far better industrial position now.
Time for some scary looking dude doing a channel on long deer huntin' trips, deep into the sticks, in an EV pick-up with a very long range. Then replenishing back at the ranch while the meat's in the cooler. This may not be far off or already possible.
Those were likely the sorts of sugar-plums dancing around in Elon's head when he was ponying up $300 million to put the GOP in power in '24. But crush a man's dreams at your peril. When all US taxis are Robo Teslas in a few years, Elon will have his revenge!
I have an EV and I love it, but no way could it be my only car, road tripping is still miserable if you live in a flyover state, you're only going to be able to find one or two 250kw+ charging stations every few hundred miles for DCFC. And they'll be in high contention at certain times because charging still takes too long on the mostly 400v US ev fleet. And of course there's always one or two stalls broken down. Unless we get some industrial policy on the go here with the charging infra and start whipping manufacturers towards 800v, middle America is going to be stuck on gas or hybrids for the forseeable future. We're in a bad equilibrium where no company wants to build charging infra because there's not a large enough ev fleet, but consumers aren't swapping because there's not enough charging infra in America B.
We were in Singapore for a week last year. The Chinese EVs were more comfortable than expected, but felt exceptionally light. The car doors felt akin to cabinet doors in a first apartment, so light, they seemed hollow.
While that didn't cause concern on a tiny island, where traffic never moved above 30 mph, the notion the same cars would ever pass US auto safety standards or people would be safe on a 6 lane US freeway with traffic moving at 75 mph, seems very unlikely.
If people want to purchase EVs, they should, but without subsidy. Handing $7500 checks to families earning 3X US median family income, when they purchase an $80K luxury EV, was simply welfare for the wealthy.
Love the blog and keep up the good work but Ford did not "...utterly bungled its own EV rollout"! I've been driving a Ford Lightning for 2.5 years, absolutely love the ride, and keep quiet as others complain about gas prices. I'm a climate skeptic (at least the apocalypse versions) but still remember the first time accelerating in a friend's Tesla. Like you say, the EV tech is just...better. Ford has done a great job keeping my truck relevant and if they done anything wrong, it's not holding the course on what I simply call a better truck.
I’d much rather have an EV. I hope the US gets our stuff together and starts trying with the technology.
Convincing my condo board to allow chargers will be the next challenge, but one thing at a time.
I friggin' love my EV. The Taycan Turbo S is the most fun sports car I've ever driven. I'm not even a climate-concerned kinda guy; I just feel like it's just a legitimately faster, quieter, more enjoyable sports car than any consumer gas vehicle on the market.
As for the fuel costs... Got one in 2021 and it came with free charging for three years, which was the entire term of the lease! Rolled into a 2025 about a year ago. It only came with one year free charging, but you can charge at the dealer any time for free. I'd be shocked if my total fuel costs over the last *five years* has amounted to more than $150 total (I don't charge at home like most people do).
Caught some flack from conservative friends for driving an EV. Not sure why they politicize EVs. I'm guessing because they associate it with climate activism. My experience though, is that once someone drives an EV, they don't go back -- regardless if they're conservative or liberal.
What I can't explain for the life of me is why people are so stuck on these gas cars. And the car manufacturers pander to these guys. You know what Porsche does that's just so insane? The Taycan has a button you can push that makes a fake noise from a rear speaker, to make the EV sound like a gas vehicle. Sounds more like a vacuum cleaner noise than a car noise to me but whatever. That's not all though. The 2026 model is going to have a fake gear shifter (and presumably clutch pedal?) to make it seem even *more* like a primitive gas guzzler. Not even making this up. I just don't understand people.
Don't mock range anxiety... That's actually a legit concern. At least for Porsche owners. At full charge, it says 330 miles remaining. I'm lucky to get 250. It's less of a concern for Tesla and Lucid owners though. I believe Lucid can get 500 miles on one charge which is more than most gas vehicles! Those dudes don't even know the meaning of the phrase "range anxiety."
"That story ended with Detroit rebounding in the late 90s and 2000s after oil prices went back down, by shifting to high-margin gas-guzzling SUVs. "
No. The oil glut ended in 1998. Prices in the late 90s and early 2000s were up from the glut period.
What rebound? The 'Big' "3" continued to lose market share. Chrysler effectively went bankrupt in the early '80s. Ford mortgaged everything in 2007. GM went bankrupt in 2008/9. The only thing that allowed them to restructure periodically was the 25% tariff on light trucks (read: SUVs) dating back to the late '60s.
Electricity prices have risen faster than oil prices since 1990. The EV transition is likely driving up electricity prices and helping keep oil prices very close to the marginal production cost of more efficient producers. Despite spikes in gasoline prices , the 'fuel' cost of driving EVs and ICE keeps converging.
Meanwhile, ICE cars became much more fuel efficient. My large sedan today consumes less than 4L/100km, while my ride in 1979, a 1968 Caprice sedan, consumed 23L/100km. That's a 83% decline in consumption.
Solar does NOT make sense where I live - at the edge of the Cascade mountains in Washington. And I am not sold yet as to the availability of recharging stations as I head into the mountains and forests - but I am doing fine with my 2017 Prius Prime. I can almost get to town for groceries and back on one charge and the mileage on gas is superb. It doesn't do so well on the forest and lumber roads though. Frankly, the smaller SUV hybrids are reasonable choices - and something like a Forester hybrid would handle the bad roads and winter road conditions better, but at about twice the fuel cost of the Prius - but still reasonable since I no longer have to commute to work daily. I was commuting when I got the Prius.
My neighbor with his multiple big diesel trucks / SUV's is not at all happy.
And by extension, the cost of anti Chinese Ev nonsense hehe