I agree that Japan has an undeserved reputation for "xenophobia", but your post would benefit on distinguishing between migrants and refugees.
In 2022, Japan accepted 202 refugees after turning down 98% of the applications. It's rather easy to answer "no" to the question "are immigrants to blame for crime" if the migrants you are accepting are "skilled labour" or otherwise goes straight into a work they already applied for before entering the country.
The reason my native Sweden and Germany have a high "yes" answer on this question as per the PEW Research poll above, is related to the fulfilment of rich nations' responsibility to accept people seeking refugee in our countries, for better or worse.
As long as Japan is refusing to do the same, it will be hard to wash off that "xenophobic" reputation together with countries like South Korea or Taiwan where are I live now.
Another great article Noah. One thing: I lived and worked in Japan for seven years and speak Japanese (JLPT N2) and unfortunately did come across a handful of restaurants and bars over that time that openly refused foreigners, although never in Tokyo. So that part is not just an internet myth.
I lived there 5 years in the 90s and never saw a bar or restaurant like this, but there was one in Kobe that said ‘Japanese Only’ but it was an unclear translation since the sign also said 店員は日本語しか分かりません, which means employees only know Japanese.
The only place I saw discrimination as a foreigner was in real estate, where some small landlords didn’t want to deal with foreigners, and actually stated it on their listings, but only at a few places. This is probably more rare today, especially in sales, with so many Chinese `expats` trying to preserve/hide their wealth from the PRC by buying properties in Japan.
Just piling on, in my year living there I experienced this three times as a White British guy. It definitely happens, some of the resturants even have signs saying no foreigners. This has happened on the main streets of Kyoto, or less surprisingly in cafes in rural Gifu.
Not to say your article is wrong, it's data-driven and I love it. Data is the plural of anecdote after all!
I've just come back from Kyoto, and in the west (less touristy part of town) there was a 7-11 that had a handwritten sign by the counter saying that many of the staff were non Japanese, and had imperfect language skills, but please understand as they are gambatte-ing.
I did see a restaurant in the really touristy heart, between Gion and Shijo, that had a sign in English on the door saying it served only Japanese speakers (to ensure that they could give a full and proper service). It struck me as a massive own goal, given the location; who knows whether there's some history behind it.
In the 25 years I've been visiting Japan, it has internationalised really strikingly. In general, I think Japan's attitudes/relations with foreigners is path dependent, and so markedly different to those of the US or the UK or Western countries with similar (albeit not identical) historical patterns. It's not unproblematic, as you say, but what country's situation is? I think that this means we often struggle to accurately understand what's going on, as Western observers, if we don't work hard to recognise our working assumptions.
Regarding the "not serving gaijin" businesses. There are some different drivers. Japanese TV news programs have had a number of items recently about how the waves of inbound tourists are causing trouble for the locals.
One of the complaints (from Ramen and similar fastish food places) was that foreigners would take an hour over a bowl of ramen instead of 10-15 minutes. If you are a small ramen shop with 10 seats and 4 foreigners occupy seats for an hour during the lunchtime rush instead of 15 minutes you've lost some 12 servings out of a potential 40 which is a significant cut of your business. IF you have multiple groups like during the day that you're in losing money territory. I suspect similar things drive some other businesses who don't welcome foreigners. They'd be happy to welcome foreigners as long as they don't lose money doing so, but if/when they start losing money they stop being so welcoming
Related is the apparent insensitivity of tourists to the fact they are not in Disney world but in a real city with workers who need to go places etc. This is the exact same complaint as I've seen (and may even have uttered) about tourists in Cambridge (UK) and numerous other places where the beautiful tourist attractions are surrounded by businesses that are not tourism driven.
Then there are the places who are sure that their English is so poor they can't communicate with the foreign customers. I'd say this is rarer these days than it was, but I expect it is still a part. I know some small izakaya owners who have told me they are grateful that I speak Japanese because they wouldn't know how to handle foreigners who can't speak (or perhaps more importantly, read) Japanese and so would be unable to order anything. For sure I've had a few places look nervous when I come in and are clearly relieved when I greet them in Japanese
Finally there are the ones who are actually xenophobes and don't want their spaces occupied by foreigners. I have not encountered a place like that in a couple of decades but then I haven't tried to visit the sorts of shitty little clubs in Shinjuku where I was told I was unwelcome back in the 1990s. Apparently I want to go to different places to some of your other commenters..
"Related is the apparent insensitivity of tourists to the fact they are not in Disney world but in a real city with workers who need to go places etc."
It can get confusing, sometimes, as a tourist, because many places do model themselves as a Disney-like place. Last fall, we stayed a few days in Donostia (aka San Sabastian) in Euskadi (Basque country) of northern Spain. The western portion of the city between the river and the ocean is very much like a place in Disneyland (I took to calling it Basque Land), and choked with tourists. There was even a Craft Brewery restaurant called "Basque Land" (although on the east side of the river). Another place that comes to mind is the old part of Quebec city that cruise chips (including Disney cruise chips) hang out at.
Love the ramen example…there are tons of alternative explanations for things like that in life and we always tend to latch onto the very simplistic observations when sometimes things are more nuanced.
I think the ramen example is a good rule of thumb for anyone to adopt, and I base this partially on a lot of people in my family working in the restaurant industry. Most restaurants, cafes, and bars anywhere in the world will be grateful (even if they don't specifically recognize it) if people judged how long they should stay based on how crowded the place is.
1. If a place is mostly empty, hanging out for a while is usually fine and can even have the unintended benefit of making it feel more lively and in-demand.
2. If a place is moderately busy, it's usually a good idea to vaguely pay attention to if things are filling up or not and judge accordingly.
3. And if it's busy, well, if someone is still ordering stuff then have at it, but if they've finished eating or drinking and are merely using a crowded place to chat and relax, then it might be time to consider leaving to open up a spot.
The Japan example stated above is the norm globally -- I'd be interested in hearing about places where this isn't the norm because it'd be quite strange and fun to learn about.
I definitely have the opposite experience at restaurants in Europe. I want to have an hour dinner, and then settle up and leave, but at a nice restaurant, it can be very hard to get the serving staff to bring you the bill, because they expect you to linger for a few hours!
I suspect it’s the opposite at cafes at lunch, where they charge you more for eat-in than for take-away, but there’s probably a range of cultural norms about how long to linger at an establishment that goes in both directions from what I expect.
Yep. Plus there the whole "will they come and take your order" thing in the first place. I've heard it is a deliberate tactic in some restaurants to try and get a second appero drinks order out of a table but it can be frustrating if you are in a bit more of a hurry
I tried to get the famous ramen in Hakata last month on a Saturday around noon, and all the dozens of shops had lines of more than 20 people outside, a lot of foreigners judging by the suitcases they were leaning on. A bowl of ramen at different places ranged from 380¥ (less than $2.50) to 1200¥, these restaurants have to survive on volume at these low prices, and they are all pretty small, so lingering after eating is bad. I see some places in tourist spots now make new expensive variants (like seafood ramen with a crab leg thrown in) that they then charge quadruple for, but only foreigners who exchanged cheap yen buy those.
I ended up going to an expensive sushi place instead, which had no line. Top of the line omakase was 8600¥, but I think 600¥ of that was for the gold flakes they sprinkled on top of the uni; great sushi for under $60.
I may be going to Fukuoka next month, thanks for the report.
¥8600 for sushi seems a lot to me living in rural Japan. But given that Japan tends to include the tax in the price and there's no tipping to an American visitor that would be a bargain, especially give the undoubted quality of the fish. I found it was quite easy to spend (after tax / tip) ~$50 to get a mediocre meal in California earlier this year
So I agree that Japan is not xenophobic. I've met quite a few Africans who've moved to Japan and some who've even married Japanese women and they say that the Japanese have been lovely and quite supportive(interestingly the exact opposite is true of Korea, which many experience as actually deeply xenophobic). However I will note that no-gaijin restaurants still exist as of 2023 since I was denied service at a restaurant in Kyoto explicitly (as they verbally told me) because I was a foreigner. Ofc this is true of many many countries. I found the US south to be particularly exclusionary and xenophobic in this regard with Atlanta being one of the worst places I've ever lived in so far.
Yes this. Last time I visited pre-Pandemic it was awful. Completely overrun, bad behaviour, litter etc. immediately post pandemic was quiet and lovely. I hope they put some restrictions in before it gets out of control again.
Not wanting foreigners who are ‘bad’ travellers damaging historic sites and behaving rudely doesn’t make people xenophobic. Everyone is entitled to expect and demand respectful behaviour from visitors.
Isn't Kyoto overcrowded anyway because (like San Francisco) it is on a very geographically-constrained site?
That's probably why it was abandoned as Japan's capital, being replaced by the new city of Edo (now Tokyo) on the Kanto Plain, where there was more room to expand.
Not really. Kyoto isn't particularly geographically limited. Part of the problem (as I mention in a comment elsethread) is that it is a working city not Disneyland but tourists mostly don't seem to understand that. Another part is that while Kyoto isn't small, some of the touristy bits are and those are ridiculously overcrowded apparently (I haven't been and have no intention to go)
As a Japanese, I agree with Noah's opinion that the Japanese are rather insensitive to the risks posed by increase in immigration. Unique culture and traditions in Japan have been nurtured over many years in a closed environment and fragile as glasswork, vulnerable to external pressures.
One of the reasons why the Japanese are optimistic about the increase in immigration is that foreigners whom most Japanese are familiar with are Chinese, Koreans, and other East Asians. Those people are racially and culturally close to the Japanese and hard-working and civilized. Japanese people find it relatively easy to accept them.
On the other hand, some European countries have accepted many people from Africa and the Middle East due to historical reasons, etc. The acceptance of people with very different cultural backgrounds has caused great friction. The Japanese should be very careful about what kind of immigrants we accept and how many.
When it comes to India it's very surprising to hear that Biden thinks that Indian culture is xenophobic, which is not the case I have seen atleast. Most Indians are very receptive to foreigners and look up to them because of the colonization effect giving foreigners in our country a celebrity status of some sort, which is kind of weird to see. Dudes sometimes take selfies with random foreigners because it's the first time they are seeing them. This is bizarre and people who are from the rural communities are ones who participate in this paparazzi. Indian hospitality ensures that there isnt a lot of xenophobia here I believe. Indians do lack politeness sometimes and don't understand what privacy means at times but apart from that the general concensus among friends of mine who have lived as expats in this country or have visited is that India has a welcoming and hospitable environment.
As a white American male who appreciates Indian culture, religion, history, and food...upper-caste Hindu Indians in Gujarat were extremely friendly. Mostly the same with Sikhs, Jains, Christians.
But most of those same folks were open in their dislike towards Muslims and (Black) Africans; and at best lukewarm towards Indian Tribals and Untouchables.
It may be projecting US political factions onto India. There is an impression in the US that Modi and BJP are more anti-Muslim and religious nationalist than previous coalitions; that Modi is somewhat like an Indian version of Trump. In the US, anti-Muslim prejudice and religious nationalism are fairly closely associated with xenophobia, though I don't think there's a necessary logical connection between the two.
I traveled widely around the world and Japanese have been some of the most gracious hosts i have encountered. Maybe they thought we were all uncultured gaijin 100 years ago but on average i think this approach to foreigners has passed. I also like their policy approach to immigration. Having said that, its easier for Japan to have well functioning immigration policy, and therefore a more positive sentiment towards immigration among the population, due to its geographical position. If Europe was in the same situation, without being so close to so many emmigration countries, i would think we would be seeing similar sentiments here too. For most people, its not immigration they dislike, its “uncontrolledness” of it that bothers them.
You're not quite right about the demographic breakdown of Koreans in Japan - immigrants from South Korea (i.e. "newcomers" without Special Permanent Residency) comprise over 1/3 of this segment at this point.
Generally I think you do a decent job breaking down the lazy Western tropes about Japanese attitudes toward immigration. As far as I can tell, most folks in urban-suburban population centers have pretty much gotten used to living and working alongside foreign-born folks. Of course there are plenty of racists online and a smattering of conservative media demagogues raising a fuss, but hardly anything comprising a mass hysteria.
IMO having a healthy stream of productive immigrants is pretty much a prerequisite to Japan escape long-term irrelevance. There is currently a window of opportunity in that immigration is not (yet) a hot-button political issue, as it is for their Western European and US counterparts - if they can manage inflow and (importantly!) promote full integration, it could work out well. There are localized problems/debates (e.g. refugee quotas, pockets of non-integrated blue-collar communities, dual citizenship policy) but I see them as relatively tractable issues which can be ironed out.
Culture attitudes and behaviors deemed acceptable change. A good friend of my wife tried teaching English there back in the 1980s. She lasted less than a year, due to the constant harassment (she was tall blond cute white woman in her mid-20s). But, that was a couple of generations ago. Things have dramatically changed in the US since then, as well.
I think we need to take this in two parts. I agree Biden's statement was stupid, and not walking it back was also stupid. There's no sense defending what he said or refusing to walk it back. Even if Biden's statement was true (which it's not): it's still dumb to say such things out lout.
But I also think that (as you point out) that past immigration policies certainly have hurt Japan, and had Japan been more accepting of immigrants earlier it may be in a far better economic spot right now. So while I agree Americans should not adopt this stereotype, I think we should also acknowledge that Japan's attitudes have changed over time.
What a strange comment to make. Who writes his speeches? Also India - fast growing economy with a young population. Not sure immigration is a particularly relevant KPI for them. His comment on China growth is also factually dubious.
Japan seems to be handling immigration quite well. Targeted industries and skill sets, pathways to citizenship - what’s not to like. Certainly an improvement on the abject chaos in the US right now.
Great article - I loved my time in Japan - I did get knocked back from a Izakaya once though which I didn’t take personally 😉
Biden’s “gaffes” usually come when he’s speaking off the cuff. Sometimes it’s helpful, like when he said he supported gay marriage back in 2012, and sometimes it’s a real gaffe like this one. But he is known for doing it.
something to explore if immgration is a relevant KPI. India doesn't need immigration as far as I understand. we are the second most populous country in the world and we do have brain drains from here to toher countries.
Exactly - India’s population is a huge advantage to her. Even the brain drain is advantageous as a for of soft power as many people have Indian colleagues and neighbours and it promotes cultural understanding and economic ties.
I miss my formerly regular trips to India for work. It is an incredibly welcoming place and you are the most amazing networkers and conversationalists! I actually enjoyed conferences in India!
I spent two weeks in Tokyo with my gf, we are both ”ethnic whites” and polite people. We were refused to enter three restaurants during these weeks. It seems very weird that you don’t know a single person this has happened to considering our experience…
Highly unlikely as they were at best half full at the time with only ethnic Japanese (or perhaps other Asians as well) inside. One place told us they were closing, when we came back two hours later it was still open with Japanese customers indoors. The owner crossed his arms to signal ”no!” as soon as he saw us entering.
wow, that might be true, but when I was there 70-72 certainly was *not* the case. Koreans, even 2nd and 3rd generations, were 4th class citizens. Westerners were not allowed in most bars in the Ginza. even now, 2023, non-Japanese are not allowed in Japanese bars in Bangkok.
One thing you might have mentioned is that degree to which a foreigner experiences xenophobia in Japan is dependent on what kind of foreigner they are. If you're white or obviously American then you'll have a pretty easy time of it, particularly if you can speak Japanese. If you're Chinese, it's a whole different story.
The idea that there is general xenophobia against Asian immigrants to Japan is a lie that the western internet likes to spread around to feel better about itself. It isn't the case now, and from what I gather from immigrants who have been here much longer, it hasn't really been the case for a couple decades, at least in Tokyo.
I'm Southeast Asian, which is generally regarded as the bottom of the racism totem pole in Japan, and I'm having a great time.
Interactions with retail/restaurant staff, government officials, even police have been generally positive. I've been able to find a great group of friends of both Japanese and other Asian immigrants, and a couple white people. Old men at the local sento have been welcoming and positive ever since I started being a regular there. Dating is a million times better than in the US. Racial violence is effectively zero. People at work are aware that I spent two decades in the US, so I shouldn't really count them, but FWIW, I'm happy with the level of respect I get at work too.
The most xenophobic institution is definitely housing, with landlords that openly reject all foreigners, and even more landlords that want to see a JLPT certificate. However, the Tokyo housing market is just so much more functional than the SF housing market, that I had a much easier time finding a great apartment in Tokyo anyways.
Perceptions of countries usually take a decade or two to change. It's why lot's of people still think India is country with no chance of developing or China is only full of sweatshops making low value items or Japan is years in the future, despite the fact that those stereotypes are years out of date.
That say, I'd at least expect the US president to be better informed than most people.
India is growing much faster than almost anyone else, so I'm not sure what he meant by stalling. China has it's issues, but none of the current ones are as a result of no immigration, plus it's economy isn't stalled. Russia, for all it's flaws, actually has a fair amount of immigration, especially considering it's income levels.
On one hand, it's a ridiculous statement, on the other, I'm honestly not too surprised the US president would say something like that. The US is often isolated from the consequences of its actions abroad and that gives it a lot of room to act without thinking of it's allies sometimes. At the end of the day, it's an unequal relationship and perhaps Washington just wants to subtly remind everyone of that once in a while lol.
And similarly I suspect a lot of Trump supporters are paranoid about crime because they're mentally stuck in the '80s and '90s when the crack epidemic was at its height.
No, they're stuck in an ongoing FOX News fantasy bubble that has them believing that hordes of drug-addled Mexican rapists are breaking into their living rooms.
Don't know if I'll go that far. American presidents saying ridiculous things isn't really a surprise. Plus the usual out of date knowledge is something that people of all ages are guilty of.
American presidents saying stuff is indeed not a surprise but I'm quite serious about the senility. Find a person who deals with senile people (care home worker, hospice nurse, doctor etc.) and ask them. Biden displays classic symptoms of senility and they have been notably getting worse during his presidency. The nurse I know who commented on this said something to the effect that if this wasn't POTUS but a patient of hers she'd be calling state bodies to investigate for elder abuse
I think his speechwriters were getting bored with calling their party’s opponents racist and just wanted to jazz things up a bit, applying their condescension to a wider audience.
Remember- Joe was literally raised by foreigners and was arrested several times defending immigrant rights. Or maybe I can confusing that with several other conflicting fantasies.
"I'd at least expect the US president to be better informed than most people."
His staffers try to keep him on script. So, either he went off script, and spoke his mind, or his staffers think this was a good thing for him to say. Those are your choices.
Regarding Russia, its immigration is mostly from Central Asia (and Korea in the East: we even have a famous poet with the surname of Kim!), and, as the saying goes, "they don't send in their best". Entire low-wage sectors are taken by them (street cleaning, construction working; to a lesser extent, sellers in small shops) because it's cheaper to hire them illegally for (almost literal) kopeikas they send back to their families and occasionally pay fines than to pay normal wages. I am not saying that this makes them bad (merely exploited), but this does shape perceptions.
Conflating people’s attitudes toward the current waves of illegal immigration with “openness to foreigners” is mixing apples and oranges.
I find Italians to be open to foreigners in interpersonal and work relations (they don’t automatically treat them as inferior and not to be given full respect and deference), but that has nothing to do with wanting the country to be the landing spot for 1 billion Africans.
Similarly, I am pro-immigration for the US (in a legal, controlled fashion, drawing from around the world), but think Biden’s reckless and lawless immigration policies are harmful, bordering on treasonous, and I want them to stop. That has zero to do with openness to foreigners.
What we can all agree on is that Biden’s speaking time should be strictly limited- nobody wants to hear his “deep thoughts”.
They're not Biden's immigration policies. They are U.S.'s immigration policies.
The reason we are seeing the scrambles from Mexico through the U.S. is because Washington will never get its act together. Immigrants aren't waiting and will take their chances by sneaking in. There are a lot more flying in and overstaying their visas.
Let's not let Congress off the hook, either. Biden was about to betray his base with a Trumpian immigration policy to heighten enforcement and fund wall construction. Trump made a few calls to the GOP and stalled action on the bill. Sen. Chuck Grassley said the quiet part aloud when he said it would've given Biden a policy win heading into an election.
Both the House and especially the Senate have so many institutional veto points baked in that it's easy to derail movement on a bill. And, in the grand tradition of compromise, the proposals that get added into the policy sausage will contradict one another and reform will be undermined. Like: Everyone's in favor of expanding border patrols but no one wants to grow government, particularly the judiciary and administrative parts of the naturalization, asylum and refugee, and deportation processes. Or: No congress member is in favor of making the entry and naturalization process easier for fear that it will only encourage more immigration. The thinking is roughly along the lines of the sex education culture war during my Gen-X childhood: Teaching sex education is only going to lead to more teen sex, STDs, teen births, etc., so we better not put ideas into people's heads. So by facilitating immigration, we're only going to encourage the grEAt RePLaCeMeNT oh noez!!1! of our country by making it easier.
This is what pro-immigration people want: a safe, sensible matriculation process that makes immigrants want to follow the program, which then leads them to following other laws and customs in their journey to naturalization. This. Is. NOT. OPEN. BORDERS.
I wouldn’t deign to tell you what “all pro-immigration people want”. It is obvious what Biden wanted, and we got it, because he is listening to his activists and donors rather than citizens. I hope the citizens make their dissatisfaction with his actions clear in November.
As to a “bill”- laws only work for people who obey and respect laws and court rulings. Biden does not. He is just another caudillo doing the bidding of his junta.
I agree that Japan has an undeserved reputation for "xenophobia", but your post would benefit on distinguishing between migrants and refugees.
In 2022, Japan accepted 202 refugees after turning down 98% of the applications. It's rather easy to answer "no" to the question "are immigrants to blame for crime" if the migrants you are accepting are "skilled labour" or otherwise goes straight into a work they already applied for before entering the country.
The reason my native Sweden and Germany have a high "yes" answer on this question as per the PEW Research poll above, is related to the fulfilment of rich nations' responsibility to accept people seeking refugee in our countries, for better or worse.
As long as Japan is refusing to do the same, it will be hard to wash off that "xenophobic" reputation together with countries like South Korea or Taiwan where are I live now.
Yeah.
It might've been better to label the article, "Japan is less xenophobic than it used to be."
Perhaps Japan's advantage is essentially geographic, as in "does not neighbor MENA"?
Neither does the US but plenty are given refugee status. In other words, Japan could if it wished to.
Another great article Noah. One thing: I lived and worked in Japan for seven years and speak Japanese (JLPT N2) and unfortunately did come across a handful of restaurants and bars over that time that openly refused foreigners, although never in Tokyo. So that part is not just an internet myth.
Neither I nor anyone I know personally has ever seen it in the wild! ;-)
We once had dinner in Tokyo with a mutual friend, so you kind of know me personally hahaha
Oh OK!
We met on a boat like 10 years ago and I've seen it on my street!
But no, not common.
I lived there 5 years in the 90s and never saw a bar or restaurant like this, but there was one in Kobe that said ‘Japanese Only’ but it was an unclear translation since the sign also said 店員は日本語しか分かりません, which means employees only know Japanese.
The only place I saw discrimination as a foreigner was in real estate, where some small landlords didn’t want to deal with foreigners, and actually stated it on their listings, but only at a few places. This is probably more rare today, especially in sales, with so many Chinese `expats` trying to preserve/hide their wealth from the PRC by buying properties in Japan.
Just piling on, in my year living there I experienced this three times as a White British guy. It definitely happens, some of the resturants even have signs saying no foreigners. This has happened on the main streets of Kyoto, or less surprisingly in cafes in rural Gifu.
Not to say your article is wrong, it's data-driven and I love it. Data is the plural of anecdote after all!
I've just come back from Kyoto, and in the west (less touristy part of town) there was a 7-11 that had a handwritten sign by the counter saying that many of the staff were non Japanese, and had imperfect language skills, but please understand as they are gambatte-ing.
I did see a restaurant in the really touristy heart, between Gion and Shijo, that had a sign in English on the door saying it served only Japanese speakers (to ensure that they could give a full and proper service). It struck me as a massive own goal, given the location; who knows whether there's some history behind it.
In the 25 years I've been visiting Japan, it has internationalised really strikingly. In general, I think Japan's attitudes/relations with foreigners is path dependent, and so markedly different to those of the US or the UK or Western countries with similar (albeit not identical) historical patterns. It's not unproblematic, as you say, but what country's situation is? I think that this means we often struggle to accurately understand what's going on, as Western observers, if we don't work hard to recognise our working assumptions.
Regarding the "not serving gaijin" businesses. There are some different drivers. Japanese TV news programs have had a number of items recently about how the waves of inbound tourists are causing trouble for the locals.
One of the complaints (from Ramen and similar fastish food places) was that foreigners would take an hour over a bowl of ramen instead of 10-15 minutes. If you are a small ramen shop with 10 seats and 4 foreigners occupy seats for an hour during the lunchtime rush instead of 15 minutes you've lost some 12 servings out of a potential 40 which is a significant cut of your business. IF you have multiple groups like during the day that you're in losing money territory. I suspect similar things drive some other businesses who don't welcome foreigners. They'd be happy to welcome foreigners as long as they don't lose money doing so, but if/when they start losing money they stop being so welcoming
Related is the apparent insensitivity of tourists to the fact they are not in Disney world but in a real city with workers who need to go places etc. This is the exact same complaint as I've seen (and may even have uttered) about tourists in Cambridge (UK) and numerous other places where the beautiful tourist attractions are surrounded by businesses that are not tourism driven.
Then there are the places who are sure that their English is so poor they can't communicate with the foreign customers. I'd say this is rarer these days than it was, but I expect it is still a part. I know some small izakaya owners who have told me they are grateful that I speak Japanese because they wouldn't know how to handle foreigners who can't speak (or perhaps more importantly, read) Japanese and so would be unable to order anything. For sure I've had a few places look nervous when I come in and are clearly relieved when I greet them in Japanese
Finally there are the ones who are actually xenophobes and don't want their spaces occupied by foreigners. I have not encountered a place like that in a couple of decades but then I haven't tried to visit the sorts of shitty little clubs in Shinjuku where I was told I was unwelcome back in the 1990s. Apparently I want to go to different places to some of your other commenters..
"Related is the apparent insensitivity of tourists to the fact they are not in Disney world but in a real city with workers who need to go places etc."
Welcome to living on Kauai island.
Yeah . That's a global problem
It can get confusing, sometimes, as a tourist, because many places do model themselves as a Disney-like place. Last fall, we stayed a few days in Donostia (aka San Sabastian) in Euskadi (Basque country) of northern Spain. The western portion of the city between the river and the ocean is very much like a place in Disneyland (I took to calling it Basque Land), and choked with tourists. There was even a Craft Brewery restaurant called "Basque Land" (although on the east side of the river). Another place that comes to mind is the old part of Quebec city that cruise chips (including Disney cruise chips) hang out at.
Love the ramen example…there are tons of alternative explanations for things like that in life and we always tend to latch onto the very simplistic observations when sometimes things are more nuanced.
I think the ramen example is a good rule of thumb for anyone to adopt, and I base this partially on a lot of people in my family working in the restaurant industry. Most restaurants, cafes, and bars anywhere in the world will be grateful (even if they don't specifically recognize it) if people judged how long they should stay based on how crowded the place is.
1. If a place is mostly empty, hanging out for a while is usually fine and can even have the unintended benefit of making it feel more lively and in-demand.
2. If a place is moderately busy, it's usually a good idea to vaguely pay attention to if things are filling up or not and judge accordingly.
3. And if it's busy, well, if someone is still ordering stuff then have at it, but if they've finished eating or drinking and are merely using a crowded place to chat and relax, then it might be time to consider leaving to open up a spot.
The Japan example stated above is the norm globally -- I'd be interested in hearing about places where this isn't the norm because it'd be quite strange and fun to learn about.
I definitely have the opposite experience at restaurants in Europe. I want to have an hour dinner, and then settle up and leave, but at a nice restaurant, it can be very hard to get the serving staff to bring you the bill, because they expect you to linger for a few hours!
I suspect it’s the opposite at cafes at lunch, where they charge you more for eat-in than for take-away, but there’s probably a range of cultural norms about how long to linger at an establishment that goes in both directions from what I expect.
Yep. Plus there the whole "will they come and take your order" thing in the first place. I've heard it is a deliberate tactic in some restaurants to try and get a second appero drinks order out of a table but it can be frustrating if you are in a bit more of a hurry
I tried to get the famous ramen in Hakata last month on a Saturday around noon, and all the dozens of shops had lines of more than 20 people outside, a lot of foreigners judging by the suitcases they were leaning on. A bowl of ramen at different places ranged from 380¥ (less than $2.50) to 1200¥, these restaurants have to survive on volume at these low prices, and they are all pretty small, so lingering after eating is bad. I see some places in tourist spots now make new expensive variants (like seafood ramen with a crab leg thrown in) that they then charge quadruple for, but only foreigners who exchanged cheap yen buy those.
I ended up going to an expensive sushi place instead, which had no line. Top of the line omakase was 8600¥, but I think 600¥ of that was for the gold flakes they sprinkled on top of the uni; great sushi for under $60.
I may be going to Fukuoka next month, thanks for the report.
¥8600 for sushi seems a lot to me living in rural Japan. But given that Japan tends to include the tax in the price and there's no tipping to an American visitor that would be a bargain, especially give the undoubted quality of the fish. I found it was quite easy to spend (after tax / tip) ~$50 to get a mediocre meal in California earlier this year
BTW I wrote up a version of this on my Japan Substack - https://open.substack.com/pub/lessknownjapan/p/being-a-good-tourist?r=7yrqz&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true
So I agree that Japan is not xenophobic. I've met quite a few Africans who've moved to Japan and some who've even married Japanese women and they say that the Japanese have been lovely and quite supportive(interestingly the exact opposite is true of Korea, which many experience as actually deeply xenophobic). However I will note that no-gaijin restaurants still exist as of 2023 since I was denied service at a restaurant in Kyoto explicitly (as they verbally told me) because I was a foreigner. Ofc this is true of many many countries. I found the US south to be particularly exclusionary and xenophobic in this regard with Atlanta being one of the worst places I've ever lived in so far.
Kyoto, from what I hear, is suffering from a surfeit of foreign tourists and the residents don't like it.
Not happy with people visiting from other countries... What may be a good word for that? Xenophobic maybe?
Victim of overtourism?
Yes this. Last time I visited pre-Pandemic it was awful. Completely overrun, bad behaviour, litter etc. immediately post pandemic was quiet and lovely. I hope they put some restrictions in before it gets out of control again.
Not wanting foreigners who are ‘bad’ travellers damaging historic sites and behaving rudely doesn’t make people xenophobic. Everyone is entitled to expect and demand respectful behaviour from visitors.
Isn't Kyoto overcrowded anyway because (like San Francisco) it is on a very geographically-constrained site?
That's probably why it was abandoned as Japan's capital, being replaced by the new city of Edo (now Tokyo) on the Kanto Plain, where there was more room to expand.
Not really. Kyoto isn't particularly geographically limited. Part of the problem (as I mention in a comment elsethread) is that it is a working city not Disneyland but tourists mostly don't seem to understand that. Another part is that while Kyoto isn't small, some of the touristy bits are and those are ridiculously overcrowded apparently (I haven't been and have no intention to go)
As a Japanese, I agree with Noah's opinion that the Japanese are rather insensitive to the risks posed by increase in immigration. Unique culture and traditions in Japan have been nurtured over many years in a closed environment and fragile as glasswork, vulnerable to external pressures.
One of the reasons why the Japanese are optimistic about the increase in immigration is that foreigners whom most Japanese are familiar with are Chinese, Koreans, and other East Asians. Those people are racially and culturally close to the Japanese and hard-working and civilized. Japanese people find it relatively easy to accept them.
On the other hand, some European countries have accepted many people from Africa and the Middle East due to historical reasons, etc. The acceptance of people with very different cultural backgrounds has caused great friction. The Japanese should be very careful about what kind of immigrants we accept and how many.
When it comes to India it's very surprising to hear that Biden thinks that Indian culture is xenophobic, which is not the case I have seen atleast. Most Indians are very receptive to foreigners and look up to them because of the colonization effect giving foreigners in our country a celebrity status of some sort, which is kind of weird to see. Dudes sometimes take selfies with random foreigners because it's the first time they are seeing them. This is bizarre and people who are from the rural communities are ones who participate in this paparazzi. Indian hospitality ensures that there isnt a lot of xenophobia here I believe. Indians do lack politeness sometimes and don't understand what privacy means at times but apart from that the general concensus among friends of mine who have lived as expats in this country or have visited is that India has a welcoming and hospitable environment.
As a white American male who appreciates Indian culture, religion, history, and food...upper-caste Hindu Indians in Gujarat were extremely friendly. Mostly the same with Sikhs, Jains, Christians.
But most of those same folks were open in their dislike towards Muslims and (Black) Africans; and at best lukewarm towards Indian Tribals and Untouchables.
Maybe he’s talking about the citizenship amendment bill that favored non-Muslims immigrating from surrounding countries.
makes sense, I was under the impression that he was talking about the general Indian culture
Biden has no idea what he is talking about at any given moment- pay no attention.
Noah usually slobbers over Biden. But even Noah has his limits, and Old Sniffer crossed the line when he insulted Japan.
It may be projecting US political factions onto India. There is an impression in the US that Modi and BJP are more anti-Muslim and religious nationalist than previous coalitions; that Modi is somewhat like an Indian version of Trump. In the US, anti-Muslim prejudice and religious nationalism are fairly closely associated with xenophobia, though I don't think there's a necessary logical connection between the two.
oh I see, your point does make sense on how the xenophobia might have been derived ! thanks !
I traveled widely around the world and Japanese have been some of the most gracious hosts i have encountered. Maybe they thought we were all uncultured gaijin 100 years ago but on average i think this approach to foreigners has passed. I also like their policy approach to immigration. Having said that, its easier for Japan to have well functioning immigration policy, and therefore a more positive sentiment towards immigration among the population, due to its geographical position. If Europe was in the same situation, without being so close to so many emmigration countries, i would think we would be seeing similar sentiments here too. For most people, its not immigration they dislike, its “uncontrolledness” of it that bothers them.
Which is also reflected in Canadian positivity; the geography makes it easy to control.
You're not quite right about the demographic breakdown of Koreans in Japan - immigrants from South Korea (i.e. "newcomers" without Special Permanent Residency) comprise over 1/3 of this segment at this point.
Generally I think you do a decent job breaking down the lazy Western tropes about Japanese attitudes toward immigration. As far as I can tell, most folks in urban-suburban population centers have pretty much gotten used to living and working alongside foreign-born folks. Of course there are plenty of racists online and a smattering of conservative media demagogues raising a fuss, but hardly anything comprising a mass hysteria.
IMO having a healthy stream of productive immigrants is pretty much a prerequisite to Japan escape long-term irrelevance. There is currently a window of opportunity in that immigration is not (yet) a hot-button political issue, as it is for their Western European and US counterparts - if they can manage inflow and (importantly!) promote full integration, it could work out well. There are localized problems/debates (e.g. refugee quotas, pockets of non-integrated blue-collar communities, dual citizenship policy) but I see them as relatively tractable issues which can be ironed out.
Culture attitudes and behaviors deemed acceptable change. A good friend of my wife tried teaching English there back in the 1980s. She lasted less than a year, due to the constant harassment (she was tall blond cute white woman in her mid-20s). But, that was a couple of generations ago. Things have dramatically changed in the US since then, as well.
I think we need to take this in two parts. I agree Biden's statement was stupid, and not walking it back was also stupid. There's no sense defending what he said or refusing to walk it back. Even if Biden's statement was true (which it's not): it's still dumb to say such things out lout.
But I also think that (as you point out) that past immigration policies certainly have hurt Japan, and had Japan been more accepting of immigrants earlier it may be in a far better economic spot right now. So while I agree Americans should not adopt this stereotype, I think we should also acknowledge that Japan's attitudes have changed over time.
What a strange comment to make. Who writes his speeches? Also India - fast growing economy with a young population. Not sure immigration is a particularly relevant KPI for them. His comment on China growth is also factually dubious.
Japan seems to be handling immigration quite well. Targeted industries and skill sets, pathways to citizenship - what’s not to like. Certainly an improvement on the abject chaos in the US right now.
Great article - I loved my time in Japan - I did get knocked back from a Izakaya once though which I didn’t take personally 😉
Biden’s “gaffes” usually come when he’s speaking off the cuff. Sometimes it’s helpful, like when he said he supported gay marriage back in 2012, and sometimes it’s a real gaffe like this one. But he is known for doing it.
something to explore if immgration is a relevant KPI. India doesn't need immigration as far as I understand. we are the second most populous country in the world and we do have brain drains from here to toher countries.
Exactly - India’s population is a huge advantage to her. Even the brain drain is advantageous as a for of soft power as many people have Indian colleagues and neighbours and it promotes cultural understanding and economic ties.
I miss my formerly regular trips to India for work. It is an incredibly welcoming place and you are the most amazing networkers and conversationalists! I actually enjoyed conferences in India!
I spent two weeks in Tokyo with my gf, we are both ”ethnic whites” and polite people. We were refused to enter three restaurants during these weeks. It seems very weird that you don’t know a single person this has happened to considering our experience…
Have you considered that perhaps the restaurants were entirely booked with reservations?
Highly unlikely as they were at best half full at the time with only ethnic Japanese (or perhaps other Asians as well) inside. One place told us they were closing, when we came back two hours later it was still open with Japanese customers indoors. The owner crossed his arms to signal ”no!” as soon as he saw us entering.
wow, that might be true, but when I was there 70-72 certainly was *not* the case. Koreans, even 2nd and 3rd generations, were 4th class citizens. Westerners were not allowed in most bars in the Ginza. even now, 2023, non-Japanese are not allowed in Japanese bars in Bangkok.
One thing you might have mentioned is that degree to which a foreigner experiences xenophobia in Japan is dependent on what kind of foreigner they are. If you're white or obviously American then you'll have a pretty easy time of it, particularly if you can speak Japanese. If you're Chinese, it's a whole different story.
The idea that there is general xenophobia against Asian immigrants to Japan is a lie that the western internet likes to spread around to feel better about itself. It isn't the case now, and from what I gather from immigrants who have been here much longer, it hasn't really been the case for a couple decades, at least in Tokyo.
I'm Southeast Asian, which is generally regarded as the bottom of the racism totem pole in Japan, and I'm having a great time.
Interactions with retail/restaurant staff, government officials, even police have been generally positive. I've been able to find a great group of friends of both Japanese and other Asian immigrants, and a couple white people. Old men at the local sento have been welcoming and positive ever since I started being a regular there. Dating is a million times better than in the US. Racial violence is effectively zero. People at work are aware that I spent two decades in the US, so I shouldn't really count them, but FWIW, I'm happy with the level of respect I get at work too.
The most xenophobic institution is definitely housing, with landlords that openly reject all foreigners, and even more landlords that want to see a JLPT certificate. However, the Tokyo housing market is just so much more functional than the SF housing market, that I had a much easier time finding a great apartment in Tokyo anyways.
Perceptions of countries usually take a decade or two to change. It's why lot's of people still think India is country with no chance of developing or China is only full of sweatshops making low value items or Japan is years in the future, despite the fact that those stereotypes are years out of date.
That say, I'd at least expect the US president to be better informed than most people.
India is growing much faster than almost anyone else, so I'm not sure what he meant by stalling. China has it's issues, but none of the current ones are as a result of no immigration, plus it's economy isn't stalled. Russia, for all it's flaws, actually has a fair amount of immigration, especially considering it's income levels.
On one hand, it's a ridiculous statement, on the other, I'm honestly not too surprised the US president would say something like that. The US is often isolated from the consequences of its actions abroad and that gives it a lot of room to act without thinking of it's allies sometimes. At the end of the day, it's an unequal relationship and perhaps Washington just wants to subtly remind everyone of that once in a while lol.
And similarly I suspect a lot of Trump supporters are paranoid about crime because they're mentally stuck in the '80s and '90s when the crack epidemic was at its height.
No, they're stuck in an ongoing FOX News fantasy bubble that has them believing that hordes of drug-addled Mexican rapists are breaking into their living rooms.
"And similarly I suspect a lot of Trump supporters are paranoid about crime because they're mentally stuck in the '80s and '90s"
Nice projection. You should consider opening a theatre.
Plus Biden is literally senile and probably has no idea that things have changed from when he was more clued in.
Don't know if I'll go that far. American presidents saying ridiculous things isn't really a surprise. Plus the usual out of date knowledge is something that people of all ages are guilty of.
American presidents saying stuff is indeed not a surprise but I'm quite serious about the senility. Find a person who deals with senile people (care home worker, hospice nurse, doctor etc.) and ask them. Biden displays classic symptoms of senility and they have been notably getting worse during his presidency. The nurse I know who commented on this said something to the effect that if this wasn't POTUS but a patient of hers she'd be calling state bodies to investigate for elder abuse
I think his speechwriters were getting bored with calling their party’s opponents racist and just wanted to jazz things up a bit, applying their condescension to a wider audience.
Remember- Joe was literally raised by foreigners and was arrested several times defending immigrant rights. Or maybe I can confusing that with several other conflicting fantasies.
That was back before Uncle Bossy was eaten by Corn Pop after Beau died in Gaza.
"I'd at least expect the US president to be better informed than most people."
His staffers try to keep him on script. So, either he went off script, and spoke his mind, or his staffers think this was a good thing for him to say. Those are your choices.
Regarding Russia, its immigration is mostly from Central Asia (and Korea in the East: we even have a famous poet with the surname of Kim!), and, as the saying goes, "they don't send in their best". Entire low-wage sectors are taken by them (street cleaning, construction working; to a lesser extent, sellers in small shops) because it's cheaper to hire them illegally for (almost literal) kopeikas they send back to their families and occasionally pay fines than to pay normal wages. I am not saying that this makes them bad (merely exploited), but this does shape perceptions.
Conflating people’s attitudes toward the current waves of illegal immigration with “openness to foreigners” is mixing apples and oranges.
I find Italians to be open to foreigners in interpersonal and work relations (they don’t automatically treat them as inferior and not to be given full respect and deference), but that has nothing to do with wanting the country to be the landing spot for 1 billion Africans.
Similarly, I am pro-immigration for the US (in a legal, controlled fashion, drawing from around the world), but think Biden’s reckless and lawless immigration policies are harmful, bordering on treasonous, and I want them to stop. That has zero to do with openness to foreigners.
What we can all agree on is that Biden’s speaking time should be strictly limited- nobody wants to hear his “deep thoughts”.
They're not Biden's immigration policies. They are U.S.'s immigration policies.
The reason we are seeing the scrambles from Mexico through the U.S. is because Washington will never get its act together. Immigrants aren't waiting and will take their chances by sneaking in. There are a lot more flying in and overstaying their visas.
Let's not let Congress off the hook, either. Biden was about to betray his base with a Trumpian immigration policy to heighten enforcement and fund wall construction. Trump made a few calls to the GOP and stalled action on the bill. Sen. Chuck Grassley said the quiet part aloud when he said it would've given Biden a policy win heading into an election.
Both the House and especially the Senate have so many institutional veto points baked in that it's easy to derail movement on a bill. And, in the grand tradition of compromise, the proposals that get added into the policy sausage will contradict one another and reform will be undermined. Like: Everyone's in favor of expanding border patrols but no one wants to grow government, particularly the judiciary and administrative parts of the naturalization, asylum and refugee, and deportation processes. Or: No congress member is in favor of making the entry and naturalization process easier for fear that it will only encourage more immigration. The thinking is roughly along the lines of the sex education culture war during my Gen-X childhood: Teaching sex education is only going to lead to more teen sex, STDs, teen births, etc., so we better not put ideas into people's heads. So by facilitating immigration, we're only going to encourage the grEAt RePLaCeMeNT oh noez!!1! of our country by making it easier.
This is what pro-immigration people want: a safe, sensible matriculation process that makes immigrants want to follow the program, which then leads them to following other laws and customs in their journey to naturalization. This. Is. NOT. OPEN. BORDERS.
I wouldn’t deign to tell you what “all pro-immigration people want”. It is obvious what Biden wanted, and we got it, because he is listening to his activists and donors rather than citizens. I hope the citizens make their dissatisfaction with his actions clear in November.
As to a “bill”- laws only work for people who obey and respect laws and court rulings. Biden does not. He is just another caudillo doing the bidding of his junta.
TLDR Treeamigo: Projection.