Discussion about this post

User's avatar
DxS's avatar

I wonder if industrial policy skepticism explains the fixation on carbon taxes.

If you associate subsidies with wasted money spent trying to "pick winners," you're going to prefer an agnostic approach like a carbon tax.

It seems like industrial policy is back in fashion these days. Hamiltonian approaches get much more respect than a generation ago. Maybe it was the ideas in fashion in the 1990s, as much as anything else, that accounted for climate economists fixing on a carbon tax as the One True Policy.

Expand full comment
DxS's avatar

Great post. Three points confused me, though.

First: you say "the effect of subsidies is not partially canceled out by international price effects, the way the effect of carbon taxes is."

But why should foreigners care why we're using less oil? Oil will be cheaper for them no matter why we shift away, whether to avoid taxes or exploit subsidies.

Eg, if the USA magically converted all fuel and power to renewables tomorrow, wouldn't the plunge in oil prices from American disuse lead to more foreign oil use and somewhat higher foreign emissions, whether the magical conversion at home was achieved by subsidies or taxes?

That is:

1) carbon taxes make us use less oil, because for us oil is pricier, but

2) renewable subsidies also make us use less oil, because for us renewables are cheaper, so

3) both carbon taxes and renewable subsidies reduce our oil use, so

4) both carbon taxes and renewable subsidies should lower oil prices elsewhere, so

5) both carbon taxes and renewable subsidies suffer partial cancellation of their intended "changed relative domestic prices reduces emissions," because foreigners use more oil.

Is this wrong? If it's right, how isn't this the same problem for subsidies as taxes?

The answer might be "okay, technically subsidies do also induce a foreign rise in oil use following domestic disuse, but it's overwhelmed by the learning effect," but you don't say it that way in your post.

The second thing that confused me: you say subsidies encourage learning, but taxes don't.

But in theory, higher oil prices should also encourage more investment in non-oil power sources, and more R&D in energy efficiency.

What is it about renewable subsidies that generates an unusually high learning effect?

The answer might be "energy efficiency doesn't exhibit the same kind of massive scaling we're seeing in solar, batteries, etc." That's plausible, since solar etc represent new industries with lots of concentrated development, whereas efficiency probably involves a bunch of different steps in a bunch of different places. So "new efficiency knowhow" could easily be much harder to copy on and scale up than "new solar knowhow."

Alternatively, the answer could be that a fair chunk of carbon taxes' effect would simply be in reduced consumption, which doesn't generate learning.

Third, you suggest economists were blindsided by the scale of these learning effects. Is that because the economists were naive, and this always happens with a new power industry? Did this happen with coal and oil and nuclear?

Or are solar and wind and batteries unusually good at having scaling effects, in a way that previous energy technologies weren't?

It's true that solar and wind and batteries are all made of high-tech mass-manufactured objects, and solar in particular exploits circuitry technology nearly as much as computer chips do.

But should it have been obvious that windmills would have more learning payoffs than oil wells, for example? Or were there historical large learning effects to oil adoption that the climate economists just forgot to generalize from? Or is today's "green power learning" a fortunate surprise that only a real expert would have predicted early?

Expand full comment
55 more comments...

No posts