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Michael Roberts's avatar

I am working with colleagues on high resolution modeling of power systems . The truth is, it's hard to make a lot of nuclear work in a state-of-the-art capacity expansion model that simultaneously models real time operations and capital build outs. I am a little surprised about Jesse Jenkins "clean firm" line, as this should be clear in his GenX model. There are so many ways of dealing with variability: overbuilding cheap wind and/or solar, batteries, transmission, demand response, demand-side storage, pumped water hydro, hydrogen, other forms of gravity storage, or burning biofuel in old thermal power plants--we already export the stuff and should have plenty lying around once we all go EV. New geothermal tech could be a game changer -- that would be clean and firm. But if he means nuclear by "clean firm," it hardly helps, because most nuclear is flat and dumb -- it just doesn't do anything to complement cheap wind and solar. It would have to be new, smaller, more flexible nuclear to be useful. This is why Diablo Canyon is shuttering; net load is falling so much midday in California that DC can't run at full capacity anymore, greatly increasing its already high average cost. If you're going to use storage, better to use it for cheap wind and solar.

New, small flexible nuclear can make it sometimes to help with seasonal balancing or long spells of low wind / low sun. But there are alternatives that don't cost much more, and with just a bit of innovation in, say, hydrogen, it's simply obsolete on all fronts. Maybe the likes of Steven Pinker and Bill Gates know about tech that I don't, but I do know we can build 100% clean energy at remarkably low cost without nuclear, without firm, and with a relatively small footprint of land area -- we can be reasonably selective about were we put the wind and very selective about where we put solar. Long-run, it's probably solar that really wins, because it's cheaper, easier to locate, tiny footprint, and doesn't have as much long-run variability as wind, especially if we expand transmission.

So, the argument against nuclear simply isn't ideological (even if we should worry about events like Fukushima). It's just expensive. So what's it all about? My hunch is that rich, powerful people scoffed at renewables, SP and BG and their ilk feared looking dumb by taking solar and wind seriously, and ran with their conventional prior instincts. And if you're in the mix with these guys and big funders everywhere, you really don't want to offend their sensibilities. So, savvy people have learned that the emperor's new clothes are "clean firm." Brilliant, really. Because it's vague enough to walk back, while still pandering to the egos and prejudices of the monied elite.

All that said, I can maybe see good reason to keep some old nuclear online for awhile as renewables and storage ramp up. I think this would cause wholesale prices to get even more variable as clean energy grows, which would help incentivize storage.

The real crux in all of this is fixing markets. Some places still don't have them. And where they do, none, to my knowledge, correctly value storage.

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Rory Hester's avatar

My only bone to pick about this whole article revolves around your chart.

Gas peaker’s don’t accurately reflect their position.

There is no difference between a peaker and a combined cycle. They are the exact same thing. Peakers are only expensive because they don’t run when demand is low. They only run when demand is high and prices are high. By design. Think of them as Uber drivers who only take rides during a surge. The cost per mile is way more expensive, even though a car is a car.

I also suspect there are constraints on batteries and solar that we aren’t taking into account, but all things are solvable.

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